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    W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

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    Nomad

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    Join date : 2013-05-26

    W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:56 pm

    LEA "ROAN"
    NWHC - Wave?



    Figure- Confrontation, Lions Manilia Hero Box, Temple of the West, Mounted Red Lioness.

    General: Jandar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Large 6

    Life: 4
    Move: 8
    Range: 1
    Attack: 5
    Defense: 3
    100 Points

    FALLEN HORSE OF WAR
    For the entire game, when Lea Roan is destroyed by a normal or special attack or leaving engagement attack by an opponent’s figure, you may replace Lea "Roan" with Lea "Argil" if she is on this Army Card.

    LANCE OF VERDURE FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea "Roan".

    DISMISS THE RABBLE
    When rolling defense dice against adjacent attacking small or medium Squad figures, Lea "Roan" receives 1 additional defense die.

    --------------------------------

    LEA "ARGIL"
    NWHC - Wave?



    Figure- Confrontation, Lions Manilia Hero Box, Temple of the West, Red Lioness.

    General: Jandar
    Planet: Earth

    Species: Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 5

    Life: 3
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3
    55 Points

    HORSE OF WAR
    Lea "Argil" cannot start the game on the battlefield if Lea "Roan" is in the same army. If Lea "Argil" and Lea "Roan" are in the same army, place Lea "Argil" on Lea "Roan’s" Army Card at the start of the game.

    SWORD OF KAOLIN FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea "Argil".


    Character Bio:
    A wild champion and her mighty war horse stampeded across the borderlands of Asia and Europe, striking fear into the foes of her mighty Scythian tribe. Dressed in the finest armament, Lea would charge and charge again with her mighty lance. On foot, Lea would strike with frenzy with her deadly long sword. Summoned by Jandar, Lea soon found her niche with the Knights of Weston and the Dreadgul Raiders.


    - Rulings and Clarifications -

    - N/A

    - Combinations and Synergies -

    Synergy Benefits Offered

    -Figure Name: Power
    Plain Text

    Synergy Benefits Received

    -Figure Name: Power
    Plain Text

    Synergy Imposed

    -Figure Name: Power
    Plain Text


    Last edited by Nomad on Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:46 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated to latest brainstorm and added cards)

    Nomad

    Posts : 1847
    Join date : 2013-05-26

    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:54 pm

    I think we all have these figures, right? Anyways . . .

    Here is my off the wall shot at developing two of the same figures but different figures at once.

    MARIT ROAN

    Figure- Confrontation, Lions Manilia Hero Box, Temple of the West, Mounted Red Lioness.

    General: Vydar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Large 6

    Life: 3
    Move: 8
    Range: 1
    Attack: 5
    Defense: 3
    110 Points

    FALLEN STEED
    For the entire game, when Marit Roan is destroyed by a normal or special attack or leaving engagement attack by an opponent’s figure, you may replace Marit Roan with Marit Argil if she is on this Army Card.

    VERDURE BATTLE FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Marit Roan, roll the 20-sided die. If Marit Roan is on a grass or swamp grass space, add 3 to your die roll. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take another turn with Marit Roan.

    DISMISS THE RABBLE
    When rolling defense dice against adjacent attacking small or medium Squad figures, Marit Roan receives 1 additional defense die.


    MARIT ARGIL

    Figure- Confrontation, Lions Manilia Hero Box, Temple of the West, Red Lioness.

    General: Vydar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 5

    Life: 3
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3
    55 Points

    HONORED STEED
    Marit Argil cannot start the game on the battlefield if Marit Roan is in the same army. If Marit Argil and Marit Roan are in the same Army Card, place Marit Argil on Marit Roan’s Army Card at the start of the game.

    KAOLIN BATTLE FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Marit Argil, roll the 20-sided die. If Marit Argil is on a rock or sand space, add 3 to your die roll. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take another turn with Marit Argil.


    Let me know what you think! I am open to any and all suggestions and will try to answer any concerns and questions.

    Derek S

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Derek S on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:03 am

    Promising start. I'll ponder a bit before responding.

    Lord Kai

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:14 am

    Nomad wrote:
    MARIT ROAN

    VERDURE BATTLE FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Marit Roan, roll the 20-sided die. If Marit Roan is on a grass or swamp grass space, add 3 to your die roll. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take another turn with Marit Roan.

    MARIT ARGIL

    KAOLIN BATTLE FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Marit Argil, roll the 20-sided die. If Marit Argil is on a rock or sand space, add 3 to your die roll. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take another turn with Marit Argil.

    So Verdure is "grass" and Kaolin is "clay/stone." Is there a reason/Bio for why she has one terrain boost but then loses it when she is dismounted?

    Beyond that, I would be okay having her at 16 instead of 18 for Frenzy (for a 165 point character).


    Very cool design. I think the mechanic for swapping out from Mounted to Infantry style works.


    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:34 am

    Kai wrote:
    So Verdure is "grass" and Kaolin is "clay/stone." Is there a reason/Bio for why she has one terrain boost but then loses it when she is dismounted?

    Beyond that, I would be okay having her at 16 instead of 18 for Frenzy (for a 165 point character).

    Very cool design. I think the mechanic for swapping out from Mounted to Infantry style works.

    Thanks for the complement on the design. This is just our initial efforts . . . we have a ways to go to work everything out.

    I have thought about the reasons for the difference in the powers but didn't quite get to the bios yet. What I'm thinking right now, as simplistic as it seems, is that while on a horse she gets the extra on the 20-sider on grass because that is what horses eat. While on solid ground, she gets the slight bonus because that is what she can move more fluidly on while on her feet.

    The biggest reason is forcing the question . . . if Marit Roan dies, where is the best spot for Marit Argil to come into play - grass or solid earth? A different take on strategy for placement. It might take a few moments to consider the alternatives while in the heat of the battle.

    Also note, that as a Human Champion, both versions of Marit bond with the Knights of Weston and MacDirks. Also, both versions of Marit, as a Wild Human hero, bond with the Dreadgul Raiders. Too much? Let's extrapolate.


    Lord Kai

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:18 pm

    I have thought about the reasons for the difference in the powers but didn't quite get to the bios yet. What I'm thinking right now, as simplistic as it seems, is that while on a horse she gets the extra on the 20-sider on grass because that is what horses eat. While on solid ground, she gets the slight bonus because that is what she can move more fluidly on while on her feet.

    Since she has two different weapons in each sculpt you could do something in the Bio to explain magical weapons like:

    LANCE OF VERDURE FRENZY (for Marit Roan)

    SWORD OF KAOLIN FRENZY (for Marit Argil)


    A Wild Human Champion sounds like fun to me : )

    You could also make her a Valiant Warrior to bond with the Templars of Ascalon instead.

    I think it is a really good start.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:46 am

    Thanks for the initial input. Here is what I'm going with for my official proposal after some thought. I'm not at all wed to this - keep the ideas and suggestions coming:

    Vydar? I was thinking Jandar at first, but decided on either Vydar or Aquilla. I've got mounts planned for Einar. I'm thinking Vydar for now, but this is not a definite for me. Why Vydar? Color of he sculpt fits and I can't think of another way to get Vydar a mounted hero at this point.

    I do really like the potential bonding with both the KoW, MacDirks, and Dreadguls - she seems to fit. Kind of a cross section - she can be a stand alone hero, or do some bonding.

    I do really like the possibility of 2 hero figures in 1.

    I didn't want to go with Valient Warrior . . . we have a whole bunch of Cavaliers that will work with Templars - coming soon and hinted at in a previous thread (we have some for you, Kai. Don't worry about trying to buy them because they are not available).

    I don't really like the grass and sand/rock bonus . . . so I'm going to dismiss it.

    See below or see the OP for my official proposal, but included here is my rationale.

    LEA ROAN (Lea is a synonym for Lion. Marit was a common Norwegian name . . . good when I was thinking Jandar. Roan is, of course, of the horse).

    Figure- Confrontation, Lions Manilia Hero Box, Temple of the West, Mounted Red Lioness.

    General: Vydar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Large 6

    Life: 4 (I bumped her to 4 life. Total stats are more in line with other heroes in this price range)
    Move: 8
    Range: 1
    Attack: 5
    Defense: 3
    100 Points (dropped points to 100, which seemed more in line with other heroes)

    FALLEN STEED (I don't want to offend our animal lovers by suggesting the horse died, so consider that fallen means the horse just got tired . . . or took an arrow to the throat).
    For the entire game, when Lea Roan is destroyed by a normal or special attack or leaving engagement attack by an opponent’s figure, you may replace Lea Roan with Lea Argil if she is on this Army Card.

    LANCE OF VERDURE FRENZY (changed name per Kai's suggestion. Removed bonus stipulation. Lowered roll to 16).
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Lea Roan, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea Roan.

    DISMISS THE RABBLE
    When rolling defense dice against adjacent attacking small or medium Squad figures, Marit Roan receives 1 additional defense die.


    LEA ARGIL (see above, Argil can mean ground/grass/earth/etc.)

    Figure- Confrontation, Lions Manilia Hero Box, Temple of the West, Red Lioness.

    General: Vydar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 5

    Life: 3
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3
    50 Points (dropped a bit after comparing with other heroes in this price range).

    MAJOR LEAGUE STEED (sounds really cool, but I'm just wondering if anyone will catch this. I could go with any adjective here. Plus, I made a big mistake in the initial wording, now fixed).
    Lea Argil cannot start the game on the battlefield if Lea Roan is in the same army. If Lea Argil and Lea Roan are in the same army, place Lea Argil on Lea Roan’s Army Card at the start of the game.

    SWORD OF KAOLIN FRENZY (changed name per Kai's suggestion. Removed bonus stipulation. Lowered roll to 16).
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Lea Argil, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea Argil.

    Lord Kai

    Posts : 1544
    Join date : 2013-05-26
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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:40 pm

    I'm not sure about Vydar. That would put her on the 'villain' side, right? With the connection to Grass and Earth, maybe Ullar?

    She'll be 7-life for 150 points who also bonds. That's probably not bad, since she is a big investment .. but you don't have to play with both Army Cards. I really like that flexibility.

    LEA ROAN is pretty sweet. I could see playing with just the Mounted version and Knights. Great speed on the board and if she is on a single large base, she can get height and attack down for 6. Vicious.

    LEA ARGIL might under-costed when compared to Sir Orrick (c3v) since she can Frenzy. Chances are low that it happens, and I think Orrick is a list over-priced.
    http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=14392&original=1

    Derek S

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:34 am

    A couple of thoughts here.
    1st- If it is the same character, shouldn't the names be the same? I really like the names so far, but might need a bit of clarification on this. I could see something like Lea "Roan" (....) and Lea "Argil" (....)

    2nd- I could see Vyadar or Ullar or Aquilla, but in their visual aspect I see Jandar 1st, possibly Vyadar 2nd.

    3rd- I really don't see wild as the personality. Both sculpts look more regal to me.

    4th- I have mine (horse sculpt) mounted on a peanut base which I think is appropriate, but if we want to go big round let me know.

    5th- like the redo to the Frenzy powers. With 4 and 3 life for the figures what do you think about adding 1 to the 20-sided roll for each wound on the card? Maybe too much?

    Really digging what is going on here. This is going to awesome when done.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:41 pm

    I can switch to Jandar if every one prefers, although my first choice is Vydar. I don't think she looks very Ullar. I should probably do the bio so that we all know the back story that I have in mind. I'll try to get to it soon.

    I would like to keep her personality as wild and was thinking a large round would be better - single space for both figures.

    I will change the names to have the nickname in "quotes."

    At 150 total points, she would price out the same as Sir Dupuis (who isn't worth that), but also Cyprien, Mimring, and Q10. Points and all are still in flex.

    For Lea "Argil" and 50 points - compare to Brave Arrow, Arkmer, Me-Burq-Sa. She seems pretty similar. Because she has the potential of additional attacks, let's bump her to 55 to start with.

    If we decide we want to add 1 per wound to the 20-sider roll, I'm thinking we should bump the initial roll to 17 or 18.

    Thanks for the input. Updating OP.


    Last edited by Nomad on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Derek S

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:25 pm

    on the peanut her tail hangs over the back edge, her feet go about 3/4 of the peanut base and her lance hangs over the front- it looks right. on a large round her whole tail and front hooves will hang over with the horses snout on the edge. If she wasn't on her hind legs you'd definitely use a peanut, and it matches Dupious, Marro Cavalry, templar cavalry, Meburqsa, etc, plus the other mounts from the Rakham line.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:41 pm

    OK, let's do her on a peanut base.

    Lord Kai

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:17 pm

    As a name suggestion, what do you think of adding the title "Dame" to Lea? Dame can be a title for a female Knight. Could also use Lady.

    DAME LEA ROAN
    DAME LEA ARGIL

    LADY LEA ROAN
    LADY LEA ARGIL

    You could also go French with "de" (of) like .. (though I am not strong with French)

    Lea de Roan
    Lea de Argil

    --

    I do like and support the idea of +1 to the Frenzy for each wound.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:00 pm

    Good ideas . . . I really need to do the bio first. I see Lea not as a French lady, but rather as a wild Viking or Scythian Warrior (I was leaning toward Scythian - they have been known for their female warriors, aka, myth of the Amazons originally). I will hold off on the history for now. In my mind, a French dame would never be caught wearing what she is wearing. The fancy armory she wears is plunder from the attacks on the "civilized and romanized" world the Vikings/Scythians pillaged and did battle with. Lea is fierce and wild . . . more along the lines of Dreadguls, MacDirks, Tarns, and Alastair.

    I could go in a different direction if we all want. Maybe she shouldn't be a Human Champion? I really should start with the bio. Please keep sending ideas and suggestions . . . it is helping me codify the design. I don't want to squash the flow of ideas here or say the suggestions aren't any good. Please - keep them coming.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:17 pm

    A year and a half later, I'm finally getting back to Lea. Please check out the OP. I have included first draft cards, first draft bio, and edited the wording on the powers. Let me know what you think. I would love to start play testing - she should be fun.

    Lord Kai

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:48 pm

    Nomad wrote:LEA "ROAN"

    LANCE OF VERDURE FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea "Roan".

    --------------------------------

    How about a different Frenzy power for Horse/Lance?

    CHARGING LANCE
    Before moving, roll the 20-sided die.  If you roll an 11 or higher, you may attack one additional time this turn and Lea Roan will not take any leaving engagement attacks this turn.  This attack must be after Lea Roan has moved at least 4 spaces and occur when Lea Roan is on a space where she could end her movement.  Lea Roan cannot attack the same figure more than once in a single turn.

    VERDURE FRENZY
    After taking a turn with Lea Roan, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea "Roan".


    Needs some work but the intention is that she gallops - spears one target - moves 4 more spaces and lances another target.


    LEA "ARGIL"

    SWORD OF KAOLIN FRENZY
    After attacking an opponent’s figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea "Argil".


    Maybe a different name that KAOLIN .. since it is close to Shaolin (Monks).

    Lord Kai

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:23 am


    If you didn't want bonding with the Knights - you could make her a Valiant Warrior so that she bonded with the Templars of Ascalon. Just an option.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:02 pm

    Play test report

    Lea Roan, Lea Argil, Dreadguls x3, Valguard, Guilty McCreach = 495
    Stingers x4, Su-Bak-Na, Fen Hydra = 500
    @ Savage Corridor

    Roan and the Dreadguls charged out early and seemed to have the upper hand the first few rounds. The Stingers couldn't seem to get more than one skull in attack. Roan and team pecked away at the Hydra who ventured onto the road and finally took him down in round 4. The number of Stingers and Dreadguls lost were about even. A couple of rounds later, each army was down to three commons each.

    Then things went south in a hurry for the Dreadguls. A couple of Stingers took out Roan with nice attacks, Argil jumped off the horse as it fell. The last two Dreadguls were then taken out of action on the next turn, losing an Order Marker. Su-Bak-Na pounced on poor Argil, crushing her in one attack. In the last round, Su-Bak-Na rolled 10 skulls out of 14 dice to take out Valguard in two turns, and then pounced on Guilty with 4 skulls to end the battle.

    The Stinger army had 220 points remaining.

    Roan/Argil Impression
    Roan took out 3 Stingers and put two wounds on the Hydra for a total of 120 points, exceeding her value slightly. Argil was killed before she could take a turn. Argil is tough to play because if Roan falls in the midst of a scrum, Argil could get hit in a hurry. Argil was of no value in this game. Roan never did hit the 20-sider so that she could take two turns. She probably should have fallen earlier, but the Stingers weren't rolling well early in the battle.

    I'm going to rethink a couple of things before proceeding with more play tests.

    Lord Kai

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:49 pm

    Maybe bump her Defense to 4 for both versions.  That puts her in line with Finn/Thorgrim/Gilbert.

    And maybe 4 Life for both versions, too.  Your point about one falling - then the other popping out and getting hammered is a good one for "Squad-Scape."


    She doesn't feel Vydar though ... maybe Aquilla for Wild, or Jandar for the other main human faction.


    Nomad wrote:

    LEA ROAN (Lea is a synonym for Lion. Marit was a common Norwegian name . . . good when I was thinking Jandar. Roan is, of course, of the horse).
    General: Vydar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Large 6

    Life: 4 (I bumped her to 4 life. Total stats are more in line with other heroes in this price range)
    Move: 8
    Range: 1
    Attack: 5
    Defense: 3 --> 4
    100 Points (dropped points to 100, which seemed more in line with other heroes)

    FALLEN STEED
    For the entire game, when Lea Roan is destroyed by a normal or special attack or leaving engagement attack by an opponent’s figure, you may replace Lea Roan with Lea Argil if she is on this Army Card.

    LANCE OF VERDURE FRENZY (Removed bonus stipulation. Lowered roll to 16).
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Lea Roan, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea Roan.

    DISMISS THE RABBLE
    When rolling defense dice against a adjacent attacking small or medium Squad figures, Marit Roan receives 1 additional defense die.


    LEA ARGIL (see above, Argil can mean ground/grass/earth/etc.)
    General: Vydar
    Planet: Earth

    Species- Human
    Unique Hero
    Class: Champion
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 5

    Life: 3 --> 4
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3 --> 4
    50 Points

    MAJOR LEAGUE STEED
    Lea Argil cannot start the game on the battlefield if Lea Roan is in the same army. If Lea Argil and Lea Roan are in the same army, place Lea Argil on Lea Roan’s Army Card at the start of the game.

    SWORD OF KAOLIN FRENZY (Removed bonus stipulation. Lowered roll to 16).
    After attacking an opponent’s figure with Lea Argil, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take another turn with Lea Argil.

    Nomad

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

    Post  Nomad on Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:51 pm

    Yes, I will look at making some changes. Thanks for the input. The stats/powers you referenced are outdated. The OP has the current info with card.

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    Re: W5 - Lea "Roan" and Lea "Argil", Brainstorming

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