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    W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

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    Lord Kai

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    W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:53 pm

    June 2016 Updates:


    DAMIEN EVERSHADE
    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Unique Hero
    Class: Lord
    Personality: Precise
    Medium 5

    Life: 5
    Move: 5
    Range: 7
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    120 points

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Damien Evershade may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting. When Damien Evershade attacks a figure that is engaged with at least one other Undead figure you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Damien Evershade is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    When attacking, if Damien Evershade inflicts one or more wounds, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Damien Evershade up to 4 spaces.



    SISTER OF SORROW
    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Common Hero
    Class: Guard
    Personality: Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 4
    25 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to a Sister of Sorrow you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack a Sister of Sorrow. Opponent's figures affected by Combat Challenge are not affected by Protect The Masters.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead Common hero you control.

    ==
    ARMY - GUARDS:
    Damien Evershade ... 120
    Sisters of Sorrow x4 ... 220
    Tomb Skeletons x3 ... 340
    Phantom Knights x2 ... 480
    Marcu ... 500

    ARMY - TOMB:
    Damien Evershade ... 120
    Sisters of Sorrow x4 ... 220
    Tomb Skeletons x4 ... 380
    Skeleton Archers x4 ... 500




    Archive
    Spoiler:

    Hi Guys,
    Brainstorming again.  I picked up these two Pathfinder Battles figures from the Reign of Winter set.  They both have a Vampire look and feel to them, and I though they could make a nice Unique Hero and Common Hero support.  The "Commander" is male, and has a bow & sword but is a Rare figure so he's more expensive.  The "Barbarian" is female (though hard to tell at first) and is common so less expensive.  I've ordered qty. 2 of the Commander and qty. 6 of the Barbarian to see how they line up.  With all of the Thralls that have been released by C3V I was thinking of adding some Thrall synergy to either the Commander or the Barbarian.  Also considered making the Barbarian into an Undead Guard so that it could work with the Crypt Guardians that were just released.

    Ideas and stats to follow ...

    Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol


    Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:13 am; edited 3 times in total
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:32 pm

    Lord Kai wrote:
    Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    SISTER OF SORROW

    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General:  Utgar
    Planet:  Feylund

    Species:  Undead
    Common Hero
    Class:  Guard
    Personality:  Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 5
    25 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack an Undead guard.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.


    Note:  Only the head is a Hit-Zone

    --
    Undead Guards:  Tomb Skeletons (squad)
    Undead Common Heroes:  Sister of Sorrow (hero), Thralls - Deathstrike, Bloodburst, Bloodprey



    --


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:27 pm; edited 6 times in total
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:29 pm

    Lord Kai wrote:
    Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol


    LORD ALARIC VON DRAKE


    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol

    General:  Utgar
    Planet:  Feylund

    Species:  Undead
    Unique Hero
    Class:  Lord
    Personality:  Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life: 4
    Move: 6
    Range: 6
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    100 points

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Lord Alaric may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting.  When Lord Alaric attacks a defending figure that is engaged with at least one Undead guard you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Lord Alaric did not move this turn and is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    Each time Lord Alaric wounds a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.


    Note:  Only the head is a Hit-Zone


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:28 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:39 pm

    Army Ideas:

    # 1
    Lord Alaric von Drake .... 100
    Sister of Sorrow x3 ... 175
    Tomb Skeletons x3 ... 295
    Phantom Knights x3 ... 505

    # 2
    Lord Alaric von Drake .... 100
    Sister of Sorrow x4 ... 200
    Preyblood Thrall x2 ... 260
    Bloodburst Thrall x3 ... 360
    Nicholas Esenwein ... 500
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:03 pm

    Looks like a nice start for these figures.

    LORD ALARIC VON DRAKE I know names can be a sensitive topic, but I would eliminate "Lord" from the title because none of the other vampires have Lord, Duke, Dutchess, or Lady in their title. I also am not fond of "Drake" because of the similarity to Sgt. Drake.

    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol

    General:  Utgar
    Planet:  Feylund

    Species:  Undead
    Unique Hero
    Class:  Lord
    Personality:  Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life: 4
    Move: 6
    Range: 6
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    100 points

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Lord Alaric may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting.  When Lord Alaric attacks a defending figure that is engaged with at least one Undead guard you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.
    Undead Guards include Tomb Skeletons and Crypt Guardians. This is an interesting power for a magical arrow . . . you could even make it so that no line of site is necessary. I'm not sure if it would be better to make it a Special Attack though.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Lord Alaric did not move this turn and is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.
    If he can attack twice, I would definitely consider making the first power a special attack.

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    Each time Lord Alaric wounds a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.
    So you can move a Tomb Skeleton, a thrall, or a sister of sorrow? Perhaps to give him more synergy with the Thralls I would consider doing the same power as Nicholas Esenwein.

    Is this design a vampire or something else? I would think life-drain and flying would be part of a vampire design.

    Note:  Only the head is a Hit-Zone
    I don't understand why his head is the only hit zone. Is he a zombie?


    SISTER OF SORROW

    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General:  Utgar
    Planet:  Feylund

    Species:  Undead
    Common Hero
    Class:  Guard
    Personality:  Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 5
    25 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack an Undead guard.
    I'm not quite sure I understand this. I have Q-9 adjacent to one of your Crypt Guardians or Tomb Skeletons and your Cyprien. By this power, I couldn't attack Cyprien even though a Sister of Sorrow isn't one of the figures engaged?

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.
    I can take a turn with a squad of Tomb Skeletons or a Thrall. With a Thrall, I can roll the d-20 and perhaps take a turn with 2 or 3 of them. At first glance, I kind of like this but will need to analyze it a bit more.

    I'm thinking this design is not a vampire, but more of a Thrall-like figure. Is that a correct assumption?

    Note:  Only the head is a Hit-Zone
    Why is the head the only hittable part?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:40 pm

    Nomad wrote:Looks like a nice start for these figures.

    LORD ALARIC VON DRAKE I know names can be a sensitive topic, but I would eliminate "Lord" from the title because none of the other vampires have Lord, Duke, Dutchess, or Lady in their title. I also am not fond of "Drake" because of the similarity to Sgt. Drake.

    Kai:  Doh!  Forgot about "Drake" - happy to change this name. And I can drop the "Lord" (title) from the name

    How about: (Lord) Kovarik



    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Lord Alaric may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting.  When Lord Alaric attacks a defending figure that is engaged with at least one Undead guard you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.
    Undead Guards include Tomb Skeletons and Crypt Guardians. This is an interesting power for a magical arrow . . . you could even make it so that no line of site is necessary. I'm not sure if it would be better to make it a Special Attack though.

    Kai:  I'd like to keep as a normal attack so he can get height advantage.  Shooting through walls would be cool but maybe too powerful at 100 points.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Lord Alaric did not move this turn and is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.
    If he can attack twice, I would definitely consider making the first power a special attack.

    Kai:  He's set like Sylvarris with a shorter range.  If he's engaged by more than 1 figure he'll only have one attack.  It would be possible that if he did move and attack & destroyed a figure adjacent that he could then take a shot with his bow (which is part of the design).



    Is this design a vampire or something else? I would think life-drain and flying would be part of a vampire design.
    I don't understand why his head is the only hit zone. Is he a zombie?

    Kai:  I had him originally with Life Drain but wanted to do something different.  Since he didn't fly I thought about making his head the only Hit Zone (sort of Zombie-style).  So I think he's some type of Vampire-hybrid, but it needs more development.


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:45 pm

    Nomad wrote:Looks like a nice start for these figures.

    SISTER OF SORROW

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack an Undead guard.
    I'm not quite sure I understand this. I have Q-9 adjacent to one of your Crypt Guardians or Tomb Skeletons and your Cyprien. By this power, I couldn't attack Cyprien even though a Sister of Sorrow isn't one of the figures engaged?

    Kai:  the idea is that the Sisters of Sorrow are like sergeants or field commanders that coordinate the Guards to more efficient protectors.  It's like Tandros' combat challenge.  I think it could be very powerful .. and if too powerful to give all Undead Guards, then I could limit it to Sisters of Sorrow.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.
    I can take a turn with a squad of Tomb Skeletons or a Thrall. With a Thrall, I can roll the d-20 and perhaps take a turn with 2 or 3 of them. At first glance, I kind of like this but will need to analyze it a bit more.

    Kai:  Right, helps Tomb Skeletons and Thralls.  I checked and Thralls only roll for Mindless Pack when they reveal an OM - so it would be a Sister of Sorrow and another Sister or one Thrall.

    I'm thinking this design is not a vampire, but more of a Thrall-like figure. Is that a correct assumption?
    Why is the head the only hittable part?

    Kai:  Yes, more like a Thrall.  I need to work on the Bio for the hybrid Vampire species for these two.


    And now that it seems like I'm on the right track for this initial run, I can split these figures into two separate threads.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:47 pm

    Here are customs that I created as gifts for you guys for Xmas (Nomad has the figures and cards).  They have not been play-tested but hey, you got new 'Scape for Xmas : P

    Special Thanks to IshMEL for creating the cards (and is awesome wordsmithing abilities).

    The first two are units that I had posted ideas for before and I'm happy to see them with on Army Cards.  They've had some play-testing and I think they are fairly balanced.

    I think we can play-test, modify, and develop these units for our next wave.


    Lord Damien Evershade

    Spoiler:

    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Unique Hero
    Class: Lord
    Personality: Precise
    Medium 5

    Life: 4
    Move: 6
    Range: 6
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    100 points

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Damien Evershade may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting. When Damien Evershade attacks a figure that is engaged with at least one other Undead figure you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Damien Evershade is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    When attacking, if Damien Evershade inflicts one or more wounds, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Damien Evershade up to 4 spaces.

    Sister of Sorrow

    Spoiler:

    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Common Hero
    Class: Guard
    Personality: Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 5
    25 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to a Common Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack a Common figure. Opponent's figures affected by Combat Challenge are not affected by Protect The Masters.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead Common hero you control.

    --
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:19 am

    Good concepts. Thanks for the gifts!

    Sorry I haven't offered further feedback since August on these figures. I look forward to collaboration, play-testing, and developing these figures further.

    Are these figures Zombies? I noticed that only the head is a target.

    More feedback coming after we have a chance to discuss them and give them a whirl or two on the battlefield.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:30 am

    Nomad wrote:Good concepts. Thanks for the gifts!

    Sorry I haven't offered further feedback since August on these figures. I look forward to collaboration, play-testing, and developing these figures further.

    Are these figures Zombies? I noticed that only the head is a target.

    More feedback coming after we have a chance to discuss them and give them a whirl or two on the battlefield.


    They aren't Zombies ... probably closer to a different breed of Vampire. I'll have to describe it in a Bio.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:10 pm

    It was really fun for me to test out these designs. I love the figures so I was hoping they'd find life on the battlefield.

    Damien Evershade ... 100
    Sisters of Sorrow x4 ... 200
    Tomb Skeletons x4 ... 360


    DAMIEN EVERSHADE (Archer Commander)
    Damien works fairly well. He's sort of Agent Skahen but only getting his double-attack if he is not engaged. He fell to a basic 3 attack perfect 3/3 roll and 0/3 on defense against the Groks in one match. I moved him out too quickly in the game and his undead guard screen fell too easily. When he is popping off arrows behind a solid screen, he's great. I might need to bump his Life or Range. He didn't have too many people shooting back at him - or he could have been dropped easier.

    SISTERS OF SORROW
    The SoS were solid (though in their last game I rolled 0/15 shields on three defense rolls). The "Protect the Masters" power is key to keeping Damien alive from melee swarms. 25 points for 3/5 common hero is pretty solid. They have wyrmling-style bonding with each other so they can be sort of a 2-person squad.

    They also have the ability to bond with the Tomb Skeletons but the Tomb Skeletons are basically horrible. Yes they can get Flanking but with only 2 defense and 4 move they don't get into the action very fast. Power Rankings have the Tombs at B- (which is actually better than the Drow which surprises me). Against common ranged squads they do have 3 defense but it is very situational.

    Overall I guess I would rate this Army Build as a B- then .. since they didn't really come close to winning any games but they did have a few threats here and there.


    One dimension of Damien that was not explored was that he is an Undead Lord - so he can work with the Skeletons of Annellintia. Damien + Skeletons + Sisters of Sorrow might not be too bad.

    Damien Evershade ... 100
    Sisters of Sorrow x3 ... 175
    Skeletons of Annellintia x3 ... 490


    So more play-testing and maybe some tweaks.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:12 pm

    Kai and I got a play test in with the Sisters and Damien about 2 months ago. I don't remember much other than they were more intriguing than I originally thought they would be, especially with the bonding with the Tomb Skeletons . . . I'm really only posting here so that we don't lose considering them when we start discussing finalists for wave 4. A brief rough-idea bio might be helpful in understanding the zombie(just head as hit-zone)/vampire difference.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:54 pm


    Thank for the feeback.

    I will think up a Bio to explain the "Head only Hit Zone" but I am not married to that idea .. so if it doesn't work out, no problem.

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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:48 am

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Unique Hero
    Class: Lord
    Personality: Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life: 4
    Move: 6
    Range: 6
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    100 points

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Lord Alaric may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting. When Lord Alaric attacks a defending figure that is engaged with at least one Undead guard you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.

    I think this might be cleaner as a special. The way I read it is if a figure is 20 spaces away Alaric may attack if he has clear sight, although I could be misinterpreting this.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Lord Alaric did not move this turn and is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    Each time Lord Alaric wounds a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    Cool power, what if for each wound Alaric inflicts, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    SISTER OF SORROW

    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Common Hero
    Class: Guard
    Personality: Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 5
    25 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack an Undead guard.

    I see a big problem here. What if a figure is adjacent to an Undead Guard and Tandros. How do determine who would be attacked. Unfortunately the wording on Tandros pretty much eliminates the use of a similar power on another figure.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.

    Not a big fan of commons bonding with other commons for potential bonding loops. What happens if C3V or Us creates a mummy squad that bonds? Then we will have to revisit this card.

    I also don't think of Vampires having a head only hit zone, maybe a heart (torso) only hit zone. I see these guys as different, more evil vampire family than their Eisenwein counterparts.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:18 pm

    Derek S wrote:

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Lord Alaric may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting.  When Lord Alaric attacks a defending figure that is engaged with at least one Undead guard you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.

    I think this might be cleaner as a special.  The way I read it is if a figure is 20 spaces away Alaric may attack if he has clear sight, although I could be misinterpreting this.  

    Kai:  Alaric would not be able to attack 20 spaces away.  His attacks would still be based on his Range value on his Army Card (which is 6).  The clear sight here is just that he could shoot Raelin's wings for example, which normally are not a Hit Zone.




    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    Each time Lord Alaric wounds a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    Cool power, what if for each wound Alaric inflicts, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    Kai:  This is basically Agent Skahen's Cover Fire for Undead instead of Tricky figures.  But adding for each wound would be pretty cool!  



    SISTER OF SORROW

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack an Undead guard.

    I see a big problem here.  What if a figure is adjacent to an Undead Guard and Tandros.  How do determine who would be attacked.  Unfortunately the wording on Tandros pretty much eliminates the use of a similar power on another figure.

    Kai:  Yeah, Tandros will mess with this power but he doesn't come up that often.  I'll have to word it so Combat Challenge overrides.



    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.

    Not a big fan of commons bonding with other commons for potential bonding loops.  What happens if C3V or Us creates a mummy squad that bonds?  Then we will have to revisit this card.

    Kai:  It would have to be an Undead "Guard" squad, but perhaps Mummies would be guards.  Right now it is only the Tomb Skeletons, who are really, really bad.  The Tombs have been so bad that I'd almost rather go with the d20 that the Thralls roll to take a turn with 1, 2, or 3 Sisters of Sorrow.

    I think C3V's "Crypt Guardian" is probably what we'll see for the next year or more.  Undead Common Heroes are Thralls though, but they only bond when an Order Marker is revealed.



    I also don't think of Vampires having a head only hit zone, maybe a heart (torso) only hit zone.  I see these guys as different, more evil vampire family than their Eisenwein counterparts.

    Kai: I have this thread labeled as "vampires" because these figures are vampires in Pathfinder.  For Heroscape, they are Undead, so I'll have something in their Bio that has been a hybrid form of vampire or other undead.  They are both heavily armored, with only the heads unprotected, so that might be part of their Head Hit Zone only ability.  In play-testing, this hasn't really matter much - but I'm willing to drop it if this seems like 4th power.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sun May 03, 2015 12:08 pm

    RE: Protect the Masters

    Tandros Kreel's Card wrote:Combat Challenge

    If an opponent’s figure that is adjacent to Tandros Kreel attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack Tandros Kreel.


    Derek wrote:PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead Guard you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack an Undead guard.

    I see a big problem here.  What if a figure is adjacent to an Undead Guard and Tandros.  How do determine who would be attacked.  Unfortunately the wording on Tandros pretty much eliminates the use of a similar power on another figure.

    Kai wrote:Kai:  Yeah, Tandros will mess with this power but he doesn't come up that often.  I'll have to word it so Combat Challenge overrides.

    This power also imposes a power on another card - the Tomb Skeletons. If my Alaric is being attacked and I have a Tomb Skeleton also adjacent to the attacking figure, then the Tomb Skeleton would have to be attacked. Not sure I like this transfer of powers even though it will make the Tomb Skeletons more useful. How about this?

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to an Undead figure and a Sister of Sorrow you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack a Sister of Sorrow.


    RE: Undead Guard Bonding

    Derek wrote:UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.

    Not a big fan of commons bonding with other commons for potential bonding loops.  What happens if C3V or Us creates a mummy squad that bonds?  Then we will have to revisit this card.

    Kai wrote:
    Kai:  It would have to be an Undead "Guard" squad, but perhaps Mummies would be guards.  Right now it is only the Tomb Skeletons, who are really, really bad.  The Tombs have been so bad that I'd almost rather go with the d20 that the Thralls roll to take a turn with 1, 2, or 3 Sisters of Sorrow.

    I think C3V's "Crypt Guardian" is probably what we'll see for the next year or more.  Undead Common Heroes are Thralls though, but they only bond when an Order Marker is revealed.

    Here is a potential quick fix:

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may move and attack with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.


    RE: Legion's Advance

    Derek wrote:LEGION'S ADVANCE
    Each time Lord Alaric wounds a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    Cool power, what if for each wound Alaric inflicts, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    Kai wrote:Kai:  This is basically Agent Skahen's Cover Fire for Undead instead of Tricky figures.  But adding for each wound would be pretty cool!  

    Will this work?

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    For each wound Lord Alaric inflicts on a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Sun May 03, 2015 4:03 pm

    not sure of official rulings but there might be an issue if he rolls 3 skulls, defender rolls 0 shields and has 1 life. Is that 3 wounds or 1? I am not sure.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sun May 03, 2015 9:23 pm

    If there is only one wound left on a figure or only a one life figure, the most that can be inflicted is one wound - unless we want to keep track how far into the Vahalla after-world figures are sent. I am pretty sure that would hold up, but I'm not aware of any official rulings. We can dig into it and find out, or we can go back to just moving one common Undead figure for any number of wounds.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed May 06, 2015 12:19 am

    Since it has been several posts, I figured I would paste the latest stats.  Nomad - I am changing the Sisters of Sorrow "Protect the Master" to not extend to other Army Cards (just the Sisters).  The Tomb Skeletons are pretty bad already - but I can also drop the Undead Guard bonding altogether if we think it could be troublesome later.

    Still, in play-tests this Army build isn't that strong (I think it has won a single match in about 8 that I've run).


    DAMIEN EVERSHADE
    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Commander Pharamol

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Unique Hero
    Class: Lord
    Personality: Precise
    Medium 5

    Life: 4
    Move: 6
    Range: 6
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    100 points

    HEARTSEEKER BOW
    Damien Evershade may attack a non-adjacent figure using only clear sight for targeting. When Damien Evershade attacks a figure that is engaged with at least one other Undead figure you control, it subtracts 1 from its defense dice.

    ARCHERY EXPERTISE
    After attacking, if Damien Evershade is unengaged, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    When attacking, if Damien Evershade inflicts one or more wounds, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Damien Evershade up to 4 spaces.



    SISTER OF SORROW
    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Common Hero
    Class: Guard
    Personality: Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 5
    25 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to a Sister of Sorrow you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack a Sister of Sorrow. Opponent's figures affected by Combat Challenge are not affected by Protect The Masters.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead Common hero you control.


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Thu May 07, 2015 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Wed May 06, 2015 9:58 pm

    The change to protect the masters sounds good.

    Thoughts?

    Damon wrote:
    Will this work?

    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    For each wound Lord Alaric inflicts on a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    Damon wrote:Here is a potential quick fix:

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may move and attack with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead common hero you control.

    Also, C3V just released another undead guard squad that we will need to keep in mind.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed May 06, 2015 10:48 pm

    Tomb Skeleton Archers, huh? I didn't expect them to be "guards" but that works. Tomb Skeletons + Archers + Warden 816 is a nice swarm of skeletons.


    LEGION'S ADVANCE
    For each wound Lord Alaric inflicts on a figure, you may move one common Undead figure you control that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Lord Alaric up to 5 spaces.

    I was following the precedence set by Skahen's Cover Fire to be "a wound" instead of "each" wound.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri May 08, 2015 12:44 pm

    I tried a play-test with:

    UNDEAD
    Damien Evershade ... 100
    Sisters of Sorrow x3 ... 175
    Skeletons of Annellintia x3 ... 490

    vs

    ORCS
    Skerak ... 110
    Heavy Gruts x3 .. 320
    Grigor & Rogirg .. 490


    Since Damien Evershade (Archer) is a "Lord" I wanted to see how he would do the with Annellintian Skeletons instead of the Tomb variety. Damien is not as robust as Cyprien (2 less Life, 1 less Defense and no Life Drain) so he was more vulnerable as the vessel for necromancy. He certainly would not do well against Range if he was trying to keep up with the Skeletons. It is hard to choose 2 attacks at range from Damien versus 4 attacks with Skeletons + moving 2 more Skeletons.

    Skerak was pretty solid and had some amazing defense rolls (he should have gone down to a pair of 3/3 attacks by Skeletons but rolled 4/4 then 3/4 shields). He did pull off one Axe throw but then missed another. The Heavy Gruts basically traded kills with the Skeletons (whoever struck first tended to destroy the target) so there was a lot of attrition.

    I was doing well on Necromancy rolls but then Skerak zipped over to Damien on an Initiative switch and the big Orc started chopping him down. The Unique Attack glyph helped (Grigor & Rogirg were sitting on it), but it was really Skerak + 2 Heavies cutting down Skeletons and surrounding Damien that spelled the end. I had 4 Skeletons on the Undead Lord's Army Card when he went down but there weren't any open spaces to drop them.

    The Sisters of Sorrow where not a factor until all of the Skeletons were cleared out. They made some nice defense rolls to hold out but they were clearly out matched.

    End Game: Skerak with 1 Life, Grigor & Rogirg with 6 Life, 3 Heavies remaining


    Next Up - a play-test with Damien, the Sisters of Sorrow and the Tomb Archers : ) (I have 4 squads to try out)



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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Mon May 11, 2015 9:08 pm

    Thanks for the play test report.

    Kai wrote:I was following the precedence set by Skahen's Cover Fire to be "a wound" instead of "each" wound.

    Oops, I misinterpreted. When you said that it would be cool, I thought you were interested in developing Derek's suggestion.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:38 pm

    With the Tomb Skeleton Archers also being "Guards" - the Sisters of Sorrow might end up being a little more powerful (though both Tomb squads are horrible in my opinion).  So I am updating their Point Cost.  I think they are still a little weak - since their Bonding Squad is power-ranked very low.


    SISTER OF SORROW
    Figure: Pathfinder Battles, Reign of Winter, Drakelands Barbarian

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Undead
    Common Hero
    Class: Guard
    Personality: Terrifying
    Medium 5

    Life:1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 5
    35 points

    PROTECT THE MASTERS
    If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to a Sister of Sorrow you control attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack a Sister of Sorrow. Opponent's figures affected by Combat Challenge are not affected by Protect The Masters.

    UNDEAD GUARD BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on a Sister of Sorrow Army Card, before taking that Sister of Sorrow's turn, you may take a turn with one Undead Guard squad or one Undead Common hero you control.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 - Damien and Sisters of Sorrow - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 am

    35 points sounds good for some more testing.

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