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    W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

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    Derek S

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    W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:34 pm

    Assassins of Valkrill
    NWHC Wave ? – Wave Title - Pack Title




    Figure: Confrontation, Griffins of Akkylannie, Temple- Executioners unit box

    General: Valkrill
    Planet: Eberron

    Species: Human
    Common Squad
    Class: Assassin
    Personality: Fearless
    Medium 5

    Life: 1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    100 Points

    DOUBLE ATTACK
    When each member of the ? attacks, he may attack 1 additional time.

    PHANTOM WALK
    ? can move through all figures and are never attacked when leaving an engagement.

    CONCENTRATED ASSASSIN STRIKE
    If the ? have only 1 unreaveled order marker on their army card, add 1 to their attack.




    Character Bio:
    Copy text here.


    - Rulings and Clarifications -

    - N/A

    - Combinations and Synergies -

    Synergy Benefits Offered

    -Figure Name: Power
    Plain Text

    Synergy Benefits Received

    -Figure Name: Power
    Plain Text

    Synergy Imposed

    -Figure Name: Power
    Plain Text


    Last edited by Derek S on Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:37 pm

    If these guys were a little more ninja looking, perhaps they could have been the Twilight clan, which Isamu leads. Do you all think they could pass as Ninjas? Or should we save the Twilight Clan for more appropriate figurines.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:33 pm

    They could be Ninjas though maybe Assassins would be better.  They don't quite have the Asian look for Ninjas but we could stretch it a bit.


    If they are a Ninja squad than Kantono Daishi can bond with them.

    DISHONORABLE LEADERSHIP
    When revealing an Order Marker on Kantono Daishi, after taking Kantono Daishi's turn, if Kantono Daishi is unengaged, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:
    • 1 Ninja Squad


    Isamu
    Human from Earth that fights for Utgar. Leader of the
    Twilight Clan and archrival to Agent Carr. Not much
    is known about him because he disappeared shortly after
    Agent Carr. His whereabouts were unknown, until
    he appeared in Valhalla under Utgar’s service. This
    dishonorable ninja brings with him a thirst for vengeance
    against anything that Jandar and his forces stand for.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:43 pm

    I thought it a bit of a stretch myself, but wanted to see what you all thought.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:53 pm

    You could make them Assassins with a "Dragon King" sort of power.

    MASTER OF ASSASSINS
    At the start of the game, choose a Unique Ninja or Assassin you control to be the Executioners' Master. After revealing an order maker on the Executioners, before taking a turn with them, you may first take a turn with their chosen Master ...


    They probably have Phantom Walk and some other power like Dual Strike (a la the V. Dark Claws).

    DUAL STRIKE
    When a Varkaanan Darkclaw attacks, he may attack one additional time. A Varkaanan Darkclaw cannot attack the same figure more than once per turn.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:41 pm

    I was flipping through cards the other day and saw Elaria the Pale.  I thought maybe these Executioners could bond with Unique Assassins, Ninjas, or Rogues.  Rogues would give Elaria and Darrak new bonding options.  I'd suggest a squad of 3 if they bond with a hero.

    Mika Connour is a "Shadow Assassin" but maybe we could rule that she counts as an Assassin.

    Just a thought.

    ROGUES' GALLERY BONDING
    After revealing an order marker on the Executioners, before taking a turn with them, you may first take a turn with a Unique Assassin, Ninja, or Rogue you control.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:11 pm

    I'm sorry I haven't been part of the discussion the last three weeks - I've been using all of my spare heroscape time getting our 3rd wave up on Heroscapers.com.

    Although they don't look like traditional ninjas, I think they could pass. But, I do like them better as Assassins.

    Regarding Kai's option of bonding with Rogues - Darrin Razorbeak and the Goblin Dog Rider are also Rogues.

    Here are my initial thoughts/opinions:

    - Squad of 3 (we would get 4 squads out of three boxes).
    - Bonding - keep it at Assassin or Ninja heroes (we can do Rogues with later squads if we want to). The only Assassin is Siiv, but we can create others later.
    - I like the idea of Dual Strike instead of double attack. Double attack would jack the points too much in my opinion.
    - I like Phantom Walk - if they were Ninjas, but if they are Assassins, maybe just Disengage power.
    - Adding attack die if they already have the opportunity for dual attacks may be too much. I would be reluctant to use the Concentrated Assassin Strike.
    - Yes, we should rule that Mika classifies as an Assassin.

    So, here are my thoughts (I'm just throwing out ideas):

    NIZARI ASSASSINS (name might be too much of a tie to Islam, but the bio could note how their tactics spread to the rest of Asia and impacted Ninjas, or since they have similar tactics, they bond now on Valhalla)

    General: Valkrill
    Planet: Eberron

    Species: Human
    Common Squad
    Class: Assassin
    Personality: Tricky (could keep it fearless, but then we have to consider Konrad, which might be OK. All of the Ninjas and Assassins are disciplined or tricky).
    Medium 5

    Life: 1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3
    90 Points (100 points feels a little too high)

    DUAL STRIKE
    When a Nizari Assassin attacks, he may attack one additional time. A Nizari Assassin cannot attack the same figure more than once per turn.

    DISENGAGE
    Nizari Assassins are never attacked when leaving an engagement.

    EXECUTIONER BONDING
    Before taking a turn with the Nizari Assassins, you may first take a turn with any Assassin or Ninja Hero you control.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:38 pm

    I am really liking the idea of having these guys synergies and such work with Shadow Assassins mostly. I think we could develop some pretty interesting interactions with Mika (and maybe some other Shadow Assassins we create down the road). The could still have some play with Ninjas and Assassins if it works out though.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:19 pm

    NIZARI ASSASSINS (name might be too much of a tie to Islam, but the bio could note how their tactics spread to the rest of Asia and impacted Ninjas, or since they have similar tactics, they bond now on Valhalla) Still not sold on this as a name but I do like it.

    General: Valkrill
    Planet: Eberron

    Species: Human
    Common Squad
    Class:  Shadow Assassin
    Personality: Tricky (could keep it fearless, but then we have to consider Konrad, which might be OK. All of the Ninjas and Assassins are disciplined or tricky).
    Medium 5

    Life: 1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3 2
    90 Points (100 points feels a little too high)

    DUAL STRIKE
    When a Nizari Assassin attacks, he may attack one additional time. A Nizari Assassin cannot attack the same figure more than once per turn.


    SHADOW STRIKE
    If a Nizari Assassin starts its turn unengaged and on a shadow space add 1 to that Nizari Assassin's attack this turn and that Nizari Assassin may attack 1 additional time.


    DISENGAGE
    Nizari Assassins are never attacked when leaving an engagement.


    ONLY A SHADOW
    If a Nizari Assassin is attacked and at least one skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-11 roll defense die normally. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may, if possible, move that Nizari Assassin up to 5 spaces and ignore all wounds.  A Nizari Assassin must end it's movement on a shadow space to use Only A Shadow.



    EXECUTIONER BONDING
    Before taking a turn with the Nizari Assassins, you may first take a turn with any Assassin or Ninja Hero you control.


    BLEND INTO SHADOW
    The Nizari Assassins start the game with up to 2 shadow tiles on their Army Card.  If a Nizari Assassin ends its movement on an empty land space, you may place a shadow tile from their Army Card on to a space they occupy if the shadow tile fits normally on that space.


    Still kind of throwing ideas out here, but wanted to see what you all thought about this direction.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:50 pm

    Derek S wrote:ONLY A SHADOW
    If a Nizari Assassin is attacked and at least one skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-11 roll defense die normally. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may, if possible, move that Nizari Assassin up to 5 spaces and ignore all wounds.  A Nizari Assassin must end it's movement on a shadow space to use Only A Shadow.


    BLEND INTO SHADOW
    The Nizari Assassins start the game with up to 2 shadow tiles on their Army Card.  If a Nizari Assassin ends its movement on an empty land space, you may place a shadow tile from their Army Card on to a space they occupy if the shadow tile fits normally on that space.



    Wow, I hadn't thought about the squad as Shadow Assassins.  Cool.

    For ONLY A SHADOW (great name, by the way) ... what do you think about adding "Assassins do not take leaving engagements when moving with Only a Shadow ... " so that they have Disengage only when they make their d20 roll.

    For BLEND INTO SHADOW .. is that 2 shadow tiles per Army Card drafted?  So if you have 3 squads, that would be 6 shadow tiles?  What do you do you think about allowing an Assassin to drop a shadow tile if they succeed at "Only a Shadow?"


    I am not sure on the name either.  Nizari is too similar to World War 2 references : (
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:42 pm

    For ONLY A SHADOW (great name, by the way) ... what do you think about adding "Assassins do not take leaving engagements when moving with Only a Shadow ... " so that they have Disengage only when they make their d20 roll.


    Love it, will definitely add


    For BLEND INTO SHADOW .. is that 2 shadow tiles per Army Card drafted? So if you have 3 squads, that would be 6 shadow tiles? What do you do you think about allowing an Assassin to drop a shadow tile if they succeed at "Only a Shadow?"

    Yep, 2 per army card. The thought about if only they succeed isn't bad. Would that make it more strategic. Either any time you move you may place a shadow tile underneath them (helping with Mika and the shadow bonus and their attack bonus) or if only they succeed they can avoid damage and move to a shadow which they place (still good for getting their attack bonus but after the fact, still helps with Mika). I could go either way, what ever you all think, if this is the route we want to go with them.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:07 am

    Okay, Derek, these guys are freakin' amazing!!! Well Done!!!!

    I ran a play-test last night and the Executioners won .. barely .. but it was a very fun game.

    VYDAR:
    Executioners x3 … 270
    Mika Connour … 380
    Nakita Agents … 500

    versus

    UTGAR
    Fire Primordial … 100
    Obsidian Guards x3 … 400
    Fire Elemental x3 … 505

    I played on a custom board that is a mix of Jungle Trees and Road.  No shadow starting on the board but up to 8 shadow tiles available for Vydar (6 from Executioners, 2 from Mika).
    The first few rounds were setting up and getting the Obsidians within the Fire Primordial’s aura for Lava Throw and the Executioners dropping shadow tiles and staying close to Nakitas (double protection from range with Smoke Powder and Only a Shadow).

    Utgar’s team had more attacks per OM (4 with squad + hero) but at a short range.  The advanced guard of the Executioners dropped several shadow tiles in the center of the board (5 of their 6 were within a few hexes of each other where most of the action was happening, and also to be potential Shadow Dance spots for Mika during clean-up).

    I saw the elegance of the Executioners after an early Only a Shadow roll was successful and I could duck that assassin onto a shadow space for the escape.  On the follow-up OM, that Executioner lunged between two Obsidians for a double attack (4 dice each) and took down both.  This was a solid turning point.  I was about 50% with the Only a Shadow ‘vanish’ rolls (which makes sense), but whenever I had to roll defense, the Executioners fell fairly easily (2 defense + 1 for the shadow space they might be on).

    The Fire Elementals actually did help a bit.  When the Executioners were pushing Utgar back, the Elementals were closer and I was able to bond with two -- and the 1st one made a critical Searing on an Executioner and then wounded Mika.  The 2nd Elemental moved up for more wounds on Mika though the other Searing Intensities didn't trigger.  Mika wasn't a factor on offense (she killed two Obsidians but then absorbed a ton of attacks).

    "Deathstorm" (Fire Primordial) was at 1 Life for the last half of the game, hiding behind Guards to avoid melee.  The Executioners did a double-pounce at one point, with two of them lunging from shadow for 4 attacks of 4 and doing some solid damage.  On the initiative swap, the last Nakita darted up for a 3 skull attack on the Primordial (who had height and a tree but it didn't matter).  After losing two OM's the Executioners cleaned up.  

    Attacking from shadow for the +1 attack and double-strike is definitely the key to success.  It really fits the theme of shadow assassin and is plays perfectly.

    Question:
    Can an Assassin “vanish” with Only a Shadow and after moving 5 spaces, drop a shadow tile using Blend into Shadow?

    Question:
    Should the Assassins be limited to only drop 1 shadow tile per turn? I did not limit it, and I think it is fine to drop more than 1 per turn.

    BLEND INTO SHADOW
    The Nizari Assassins start the game with up to 2 shadow tiles on their Army Card.  If a Nizari Assassin ends its movement on an empty land space, you may place a shadow tile from their Army Card on to a space they occupy if the shadow tile fits normally on that space.

    ONLY A SHADOW
    If a Nizari Assassin is attacked and at least one skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-11 roll defense die normally. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may, if possible, move that Nizari Assassin up to 5 spaces and ignore all wounds.  A Nizari Assassin must end it's movement on a shadow space to use Only A Shadow.



    At first I thought the 2 defense was too low, but with nearly a 50/50 chance for Only a Shadow, they do have a good survival rate (if there is a nearby shadow tile).
    90-points is probably good because, while the can fall quickly, they do permanently affect the board with shadow tiles.

    In my next build, I would drop the Nakita Agents and go with Agent Skahen, so she can “Cover Fire” the Executioners and/or Mika onto shadow tiles.  I also think that Elaria the Pale would be a nice cheerleader for her +1 on d20 for Tricky figures.

    GREAT DESIGN!!!
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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:43 am

    Question:
    Can an Assassin “vanish” with Only a Shadow and [i]after moving 5 spaces, drop a shadow tile using Blend into Shadow?

    I was thinking that they could. Would this be more strategic, or less? I do think it helps them out quite a bit by ensuring they can "vanish" but you are also giving up the potential for an earlier "Shadow Strike" by holding on to the shadow tile. I could go whatever way you guys want here.

    Question:
    Should the Assassins be limited to only drop 1 shadow tile per turn? I did not limit it, and I think it is fine to drop more than 1 per turn.

    I am fine with more than 1 per turn. If we wanted to limit it maybe we can have them start with only 1 shadow tile per army card.

    Glad you liked them and looking forward to trying out some of our new stuff myself.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:52 pm

    Derek S wrote:
    Question:
    Can an Assassin “vanish” with Only a Shadow and [i]after moving 5 spaces, drop a shadow tile using Blend into Shadow?

    I was thinking that they could.  Would this be more strategic, or less?  I do think it helps them out quite a bit by ensuring they can "vanish" but you are also giving up the potential for an earlier "Shadow Strike" by holding on to the shadow tile.  I could go whatever way you guys want here.

    Glad you liked them and looking forward to trying out some of our new stuff myself.

    2 Shadow per card is perfect. They'd be substantially weaker with only 1 place to use Only a Shadow against range.

    I'm cool with them being able to roll for Only a Shadow and then if it is successful - move up to 5 spaces - and drop the shadow tile then. This makes a nice combo of ducking back to the shadow and then on your OM - racing back in with Shadow Strike for bonus attack & double strike.

    I could see bumping their Move to 6 and reducing Only a Shadow to Move 4 to stay consistent with Ninja "Vanish." But I only have the one play-test done right now.


    Dangerous Army Combo:

    Executioners x3 ... 270
    Krav Maga Agents ... 370
    Agent Skahen ... 470
    Kira Jax ... 500

    Dropping shadow tiles early on for Krav & Skahen, and using the Executioners as a tough melee screen.

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:47 pm

    Second play-test with the Shadow Assassin team.

    Executioners x3
    Mika Connour
    Agent Skahen

    vs

    Fire Primordial
    Fire Elemental x3
    Obsidian Guards x3


    There was a cat-and-mouse game going on for several rounds with the Obsidians hanging back after Agent Skahen dropped several shots into "Deathstorm." I was more aggressive with the Executioners, laying out several shadow tiles for defense and future ambush opportunities. It was also to set up Mika but it took a while for the middle to clear.

    The worst part of the play-test was that I was only about 1 for 9 on "Only a Shadow" vanish so it was pretty rough against the 4 attack Obsidians. I would miss the "vanish" and be rolling 3 or 4 dice (2 defense + 1 shadow + 1 jungle tree against range) but it typically was not enough. Only on one occasion was an Executioner trapped in a location where he could not use 'Only a Shadow' because he could not make the 5 move to a shadow tile.

    Fire Elementals were also more involved and a few d20 rolls were key when the melee smashed together in cluster in the middle. The Fire Elementals were good at taking out Executioners since the d20 did not allow a "Vanish."

    The end-game was Mika and one Executioner versus 3 Guards and 2 Fire Elementals. Mika was a Tank but was only getting in one attack. She dropped an Obsidian then was attacked by the other two. Dropped another one, and then one Fire Elemental moved up for a "Sear" and "strike" and then on initiative switch, the second elemental moved up again.

    Still fun battle on both sides!
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:38 pm

    These guys sound great as Shadow Assassins and I'm on board fully. There might be too many shadow tiles in play, but we can figure that out as we play-test and tweak.

    I hope to get an order in soon - let me know if you would like some more of these and how many (or anything else).
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:55 pm

    Nomad wrote:These guys sound great as Shadow Assassins and I'm on board fully. There might be too many shadow tiles in play, but we can figure that out as we play-test and tweak.

    I hope to get an order in soon - let me know if you would like some more of these and how many (or anything else).

    I just have the one squad, so +2 more would be great (to get to 3 squads).
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:07 pm

    Nomad wrote:
    These guys sound great as Shadow Assassins and I'm on board fully. There might be too many shadow tiles in play, but we can figure that out as we play-test and tweak.

    I hope to get an order in soon - let me know if you would like some more of these and how many (or anything else).


    I just have the one squad, so +2 more would be great (to get to 3 squads).

    I think we were planning on making them a 3 person squad to +2 more should give you 4 squads.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:33 am


    Cool, I'll be happy to have 4 squads!

    Really liking these guys.
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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:32 pm

    4 more play-tests with the Executioners/Shadow Assassin. Incredibly fun!!!

    After about 8 games now, I am thinking that they could be dropped to 80-points because they are very fragile with only 2 defense.


    Nomad, did you end up placing a Mini-Market order? I'm getting excited to see a full set of squads out there (instead of my Ninjas of the Northern Wind proxies).
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:10 pm

    Derek and I should be submitting our order today or tomorrow. Is there anything else you want?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:01 pm

    Nomad wrote:Derek and I should be submitting our order today or tomorrow. Is there anything else you want?

    2 boxes of Executioners (plus the 1 have have) would give me 12 figures for 4 squads, please.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Derek S on Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:27 am

    Ordered us each 2 more of these. Thanks for all the playtests Kai. I need to get my playtesting hat on.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Sat May 23, 2015 6:40 pm

    Awesome design!

    I'm hoping to get a play test in with these guys soon, but before I do, I want to make sure I have the latest powers/stats to go with. What you see below is what was last posted on March 29 compiled with the agreed upon suggestions since then. Let me know if this is correct.

    ASSASSINS (Name to be determined)

    General: Valkrill
    Planet: Eberron

    Species: Human
    Common Squad
    Class: Shadow Assassin
    Personality: Tricky
    Medium 5

    Life: 1
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 2
    90 Points

    SHADOW STRIKE
    If a NAME Assassin starts its turn unengaged and on a shadow space add 1 to that NAME Assassin's attack this turn and that NAME Assassin may attack 1 additional time.

    ONLY A SHADOW
    If a NAME Assassin is attacked and at least one skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-11 roll defense die normally. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may, if possible, move that NAME Assassin up to 5 spaces and ignore all wounds. NAME Assassins do not take leaving engagements when moving with Only a Shadow and must end it's movement on a shadow space.

    BLEND INTO SHADOW
    The NAME Assassins start the game with up to 2 shadow tiles on their Army Card. If a NAME Assassin ends its movement on an empty land space, you may place a shadow tile from their Army Card on to a space they occupy if the shadow tile fits normally on that space.


    Again, a super cool design and great power names.

    Suggestions:

    1) Vydar sounds like a better army fit to me.

    2) Mika's Blend Into Shadow states that it is on the end of her turn, not movement. I would suggest either changing the name of the power or restating as below:

    BLEND INTO SHADOW
    The NAME Assassins start each game with up to 2 shadow tiles on their Army Card. If a NAME Assassin ends its turn on an empty land space, you may place a shadow tile from their Army Card onto the space they occupy if the shadow tile fits normally onto that space.

    (Also, I think we will have to adjust for wording concerning multiple army cards later).

    Awesome design!
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    Re: W4 Khorvairian Assassins (shadow assassins) - ready for final

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:53 pm

    Kai ran with Assassins x4, Skahen, and Isamu against Groks x3 and Tu-Rok. The Assassins came out on top. The strategy potential was mind boggling - like playing chess on steroids. I could see these guys easily becoming my favorite squad of all time. I wouldn't change a thing at this point. More testing is needed.

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