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    W1 Torver - RELEASED

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:39 pm

    How about:

    Dauntless Giants becoming "Huge Dauntless figures you control .. "

    ... to get the Ice Elemental moving : P
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:47 pm

    Dauntless height was a suggestion for the name as you had question if power name was the best fit
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:59 pm

    Derek wrote:Dauntless height was a suggestion for the name as you had question if power name was the best fit
    Oh, got it. Yes, I do have a question about the power name. I will take it into consideration.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:32 pm

    Sorry about not being able to copy and paste here, but do we need to state that you don't roll for throwing damage with a friendly dauntless if you may choose rolling damage. If I may choose for rolling damage I will not roll it for any friendly figures. So either I would say you must roll for throwing damage or leave out the not rolling for dauntless friendly figures. I would be in favor of must roll for throwing damage
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:41 pm

    Yes, I noticed the wording was redundant when the change was made but didn't raise it at the time - thanks for catching it Derek. I will work on a new wording version that eliminates the redundancy.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:15 pm

    I revised the Boulder Throw power to be less redundant. I renamed the movement power to have a similar name to Nakitas and Blastatrons. Let me know what you think.

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. Do not roll the 20-sided die if a friendly Dauntless figure is chosen to be thrown. After placing the friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.

    GAIN HIGH GROUND MOVEMENT BONDING
    After taking a turn with Torver, you may move Torver and all figures you control with the Gain High Ground special power up to 2 spaces each. These spaces may be up to 4 levels higher.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:42 pm

    like the new name for movement bonding- nice.

    The redundancy is that if you have a choice to roll for throwing damage, you are not going to roll for throwing damage against a friendly dauntless (or any friendly) so why state that you don't roll for throwing damage when throwing a friendly dauntless when you are not going to roll for it by choice in the 1st place.  Hopefully this makes sense.  Sounds good otherwise and if you want to keep it this way I am ok.

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. Do not roll the 20-sided die if a friendly Dauntless figure is chosen to be thrown. After placing the friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:06 pm


    The first time I read through, I thought that same thing Derek. But I think Damon means you don't have to roll to actually "Throw" the friendly figure into place. Is that right?

    Do not roll the 20-sided die if a friendly Dauntless figure is chosen to be thrown
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:20 pm

    duh, I reread it like 4 times before posting, I feel real Embarassed

    Maybe it should be closer to the ability to throw roll? But I am sorry for not getting it originally.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:34 pm


    Dude, don't worry ... I had cut/pasted it for the same thing - and then read it a bunch of times and remembered what Nomad was thinking.

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:57 am

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. Do not roll the 20-sided die if a friendly Dauntless figure is chosen to be thrown. After placing the friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
    to


    BOULDER THROW 14
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver to Boulder Throw.  If the chosen figure is not a friendly Dauntless roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks.  If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.

    Don't know if it is any better. Should friendly be capitalized?
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:53 am

    Now I'm confused.

    It made perfect sense to me but that is probably a good indication that no one else would understand it.Rolling Eyes 

    I tried to keep the power as similar as I could to Jotun's.affraid 

    I think I may like Derek's rendition or a derivative, but I will need to take more time to digest . . . maybe next week.afro 

    I have no idea what these smileys mean, but they are fun.elephant flower
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:54 am

    Just so I am 100% sure of the intent, you don't roll the 20-sided die for friendly dauntless. So the throw is automatic (The intent here I got). Rolling for the wound is a may or may not but you don't roll for dauntless (Also the intent here I believe). Wounding is also an option for only the dauntless figure, but it says not to roll the 20-sided for them, but then tells you to roll for them for inflicting damage. I think the not rolling needs to specify not rolling for the throwing part, otherwise confusion is going to happen.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:07 pm

    Derek wrote:Just so I am 100% sure of the intent, you don't roll the 20-sided die for friendly dauntless. So the throw is automatic (The intent here I got).
    Correct

    Derek wrote:Rolling for the wound is a may or may not but you don't roll for dauntless (Also the intent here I believe).
    Correct. The thrower can decide to roll for throwing damage or not. GG's can be thrown without a roll, and then you can decide to do throwing damage on them if you want, but I couldn't imagine why you would. Also, if you do have a friendly that you rolled the throw for that is not a GG, you don't have to roll for throwing damage . . . Torver just gave them a soft toss.

    Derek wrote:Wounding is also an option for only the dauntless figure, but it says not to roll the 20-sided for them, but then tells you to roll for them for inflicting damage. I think the not rolling needs to specify not rolling for the throwing part, otherwise confusion is going to happen.
    OK, I see the confusion.

    How about?

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. Friendly small or medium Dauntless figures may be thrown without rolling the 20-sided die for the throw. After placing the friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:03 pm

    I still think for simplicity sake the not rolling for friendly small or dauntless figures should be listed early in the verbage of the power. But now that I get it I am ok with it,

    damon wrote:BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. Friendly small or medium Dauntless figures may be thrown without rolling the 20-sided die for the throw. After placing the friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.


    derek wrote:BOULDER THROW 14
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver to Boulder Throw. If the chosen figure is not a friendly Dauntless roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
    although I still think the 2nd wording for the power is more clear (although a few changes would make it better) in my opinion.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:01 am

    OK. A few adjustments?

    BOULDER THROW 14
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver to Boulder Throw. If the chosen figure is not a friendly Dauntless figure roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:52 am

    I think it is more clear if you guys do. Sounds good.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:06 pm

    A tweak to be even a little more clear?

    BOULDER THROW 14
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die if the chosen figure is not a friendly Dauntless figure, which do not need the 20-sided roll to be thrown. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:35 pm

    Revised OP. Please take a look.

    Boulder Throw power has been updated.

    Movement Bonding name has been changed.

    Bio has been enhanced and updated.

    Revised card with changes has been linked.

    Input? I would like to add Torver to Heroscapers tomorrow if possible. Thanks.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:07 pm

    The wording just doesn't flow right.

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. Roll the 20-sided die if the chosen figure is not a friendly Dauntless figure, which do not need the 20-sided roll to be thrown. If you roll a 14 or higher, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.

    How about:
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver.  If you choose an opponent's figure, roll the 20-sided die.  If you roll a 14 or higher, or if the chosen figure was a friendly figure, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.


    My wording allows any friendly figure to be thrown but you only get to roll the d20 for damage if it was a Dauntless figure.


    And to clarify - Torver can Boulder Throw AND use his normal attack, right?  I like that part.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:13 pm

    Bio looks good!  I added a minor tweak:

    Bio:
    Stone giants, shrouded in myth and hidden in the clouds of the high mountains of Feylund, were the custodians of the crag, cliff, and pass. In times past, when roused, the dauntless champion Torver would crash down boulders with the sound of thunder, hurl those invaders who dared to get too close, and rally his kind to keep watch over the highlands they called home. After centuries of defending the highlands of Feylund, Aquilla summoned the old and weary Torver to Vahalla. Inspired by new surroundings and a greater cause against more challenging foes, Torver regained his strength and stamina to bravely defend against Aquilla's enemies in the battle of all-time.


    You used Dauntless and Inspire twice .. so I looked for new words to add some flavor. Just a suggestion. The base Bio certainly invokes some awesome images Smile
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:36 pm

    Thanks for the input, Kai.

    Yes, the Boulder Throw preceding normal attack has been the standard for this guy for some time.

    I really like your re-wording for Boulder Throw, but if we allow any non-Dauntless friendly figure to be thrown without a d-20 roll then I think we may need to do some more play testing to see the impact. I've done all of my play tests with out it. I've outlined previously why this fits the idea behind the power.

    I feel like we would back to where we were months ago when the friendly free throw was discussed and decided . . . and I don't want to go there.

    I really, really like your rewording. How about?

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. If you choose a figure who is not a friendly Dauntless figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, or if the chosen figure was a friendly Dauntless figure, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.

    Thank you for the suggestions on the bio. I will implement the changes with eagerness.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:34 pm

    If you choose a figure who is not a friendly Dauntless figure, roll the 20-sided die.


    Dude, that's perfect!
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:51 pm

    I will take a closer look tonight when I get home, but the best version yet.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Torver - RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:12 pm

    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. If you choose a figure who is not a friendly Dauntless figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, or if the chosen figure was a friendly Dauntless figure, throw the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.
    BOULDER THROW
    After moving and before attacking, choose 1 small or medium non-flying figure adjacent to Torver. If you choose a figure that is not a friendly Dauntless figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, or if the chosen figure was a friendly Dauntless figure, you may boulderthrow the figure by placing it on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Torver. After the figure is placed, you may roll the 20-sided die for throwing damage. If you roll an 11 or higher, the thrown figure receives 2 wounds. If the figure is thrown onto a level higher than the height of Torver or onto water, do not roll for throwing damage. The thrown figure does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you throw a friendly Dauntless figure you may choose an adjacent figure or destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the chosen figure or destructible object receives 1 wound.

    Just in case the figure is an it instead of a who, but way more clear to follow as written. The you may boulder part seems a little more consistent with official wording but not necessary.

    Nice job.

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