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    Wave 1.5 Chela released

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    Final Release for Chela

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    Derek S

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    Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Mon May 27, 2013 12:34 pm

    Chela

    Large Expansion Pack–Braunglayde’s Reckoning



    Pathfinder Rise of the Ruins.  Treachery Demon

    Species: Demon
    Unique Hero
    Class: Demonlord
    Personality: Ferocious
    Huge 11

    Life 6
    Move 6
    Range 1
    Attack 6
    Defense 5
    200 Points


    EXOSKELETON 2
    At the start of the game, place 2 copper Exoskeleton markers on this Army Card. After Chela rolls defense dice against a normal attack, you may remove 1 Exoskeleton marker from this Army Card to ignore all wounds inflicted by that attack.

    MIASMA CLOUD
    All figures that start their turn within 2 spaces of Chela have their Move value reduced by 2. All figures within 2 spaces of Chela reduce their Attack and Defense values by 1. Demons are not affected by Miasma Cloud.

    VENOM PINCERS SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range 2. Attack 3.
    When Chela attacks with Venom Pincers Special Attack the defending figure's base may be no more than 3 levels above Chela's height or 3 levels below Chela’s base. After attacking with Venom Pincers Special Attack roll 1 attack die for each wound inflicted. For each skull rolled, place 1 Wound Marker on the defending figure's Army Card. When Chela attacks with Venom Pincers Special Attack, he may attack one additional time. He cannot attack the same figure more than once.

    Bio-  "Deep underground is a demon so fierce, so feared . . . that he is a Lord, even among all demons. So fierce and noxious even the demons do not embrace calling it forth. Only when there is no other hope for victory, the Demon Lord Chela is summoned."


    - Rulings and Clarifications -
    _______________________________________


    - Combinations and Synergies -

    Synergy Benefits Offered

    Synergy Benefits Received
    -Morgoloth: Demon Leadership

    As a Demon, Chela may receive Morgoloth’s DEMON LEADERSHIP movement bonus.
    -Skull Demon: Valkrill Attack Aura
    As a figure that follows Valkrill with a range of 1, Chela may receive a Skull Demon’s VALKRILL ATTACK AURA attack bonus.
    Synergy Imposed
    -All figures but Demons: Miasma Cloud
    All figures but Demons that start their turn within 2 spaces of Chela have their move reduced by 2. All figures but Demons that are within 2 spaces of Chela have their attack and defense reduced by 1.
    -Shadow Slayers of Kresnik: Study of the Dark Arts
    As a Demon figure, Chela never receives, height, terrain, or special power bonuses when attacking or defending against a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik.


    Last edited by Derek S on Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:02 am; edited 12 times in total
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    Derek S

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    Chela- Prepping for final editing

    Post  Derek S on Mon May 27, 2013 12:54 pm

    Points from 200 to 210 need to be decided. I'll vote 205 to split the difference.

    Is everyone OK with the changes made to Miasma Cloud- keeping it simpler? I am

    I was also considering dropping the undead and Demons from immunity, (perhaps even the soulbergs). This might help with the bio I've been thinking of. Plus it would keep some combos from potentially being too powerful as releases are made.

    A. Keep it the same
    B. Undead, Soulborgs, and Chela are not affected.
    C. Soulborgs and Chela are not affected.
    D. All figures are affected.

    I'm leaning towards B or C, probably C. Maybe even D.
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    Nomad

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    Changes to Chela

    Post  Nomad on Mon May 27, 2013 2:16 pm

    Either 200 or 210, depending on wherever it ends up.

    I'm good with making the Cloud easier, but I think if you played him a few times remembering wouldn't be as difficult. The thing we forgot the most was the moving into the cloud. What if you kept the attack/defense still reduced when starting/ending in the cloud and made the move reduction only when starting in the cloud?

    If changes are made to who is not affected by the cloud, I think we will need to do more play tests. At this point, I would vote for either E) Only Chela is not affected, or F) Demons are not affected, or A) Keep it the same.

    Either way, I would want to do more play tests in combo with Kai's Uvall and Harpies because I see Chela with those units a very likely combo.
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    Admin

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Admin on Mon May 27, 2013 2:37 pm

    I am okay with you changing the Cloud but that probably does require another playtest. I pushed the limits of the cloud by having Chela supported by Deathreavers and Phantom Knights Smile

    What's the Bio that you are thinking of?

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    Nomad

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    RE: Bio

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:09 pm

    Yes - if you could share the bio you were thinking of it might be easier for us to figure out what figures should be immune from the cloud. At this point, my opinion is that if Demons aren't exempt, then no one should be (except for the Demon Hunters that are in the pike!).

    Either way, I will start working on the card this week.
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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:44 pm

    The basic premise is that deep underground is a creature so feared that even the Mezzodemon's don't like to call upon him unless they are so desperate in their situation they feel as they have no chance to gain victory, or even survive their current battle. The Soulborgs are generally immune from this sort of stuff- Maybe large or huge soulborg are not affected, although I have no problem with all being immune.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:35 am

    Derek S wrote:The basic premise is that deep underground is a creature so feared that even the Mezzodemon's don't like to call upon him unless they are so desperate in their situation they feel as they have no chance to gain victory, or even survive their current battle. The Soulborgs are generally immune from this sort of stuff- Maybe large or huge soulborg are not affected, although I have no problem with all being immune.

    Dude, that is an awesome concept for the Bio!

    You could always have the Cloud only work on Small or Medium figures - this way large figures like Vulcan 'Borgs, Skull Demons and Morgoloth are not affected - but neither is Q9 or Fen Hydras.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:20 am

    Got in a fun play-test this evening with the big-bad Demon Lord : )

    CHELA
    Marro Stingers x3
    Marcu Esenwein
    Fen Hydra

    versus

    Lord Grayson
    Templars of Kyllian x3
    Bishop Thaddeus
    Sacred Fusiliers x2
    Concan

    ==

    The board was custom, with a mix of jungle and road but fairly compact for quick action.

    "Team Evil" rolled out with Marcu first, who landed on a Defense glyph. The Templars and Concan followed along and made a play for Marcu and the Glyph. The Stingers followed up and dropped Concan (without stinger-drain) after a few awesome attack rolls. Round 2 I risked the Forced March and won initiative helping to move up some Templar support and getting Bishop Thaddeus onto a random glyph - which ended up being a No-Flying.

    Stingers continued ranged attacks and Chela advanced. The Templars had some good defense rolls but then Chela engaged the Bishop. The Cleric got the first shot with the Divine Grimore from height and I rolled 4 successes and then +1 auto against a Demon. Chela rolled 5 shields so I didn't need to use an Exo marker : P

    The Venom Pincers went to work and the good Bishop whiffed his defense roll and 2 skulls with 2 more re-rolls killed him in one shot. The Sacred Fusilier that was adjacent to the Bishop went down next (only got to roll 1 defense).

    Chela stomped over to take the Defense glyph (which was in water) and engaged Lord Grayson and some Templars. Chela took a few wounds (down to 3 life but with both Exo's remaining). I used one Exo on a 4 skull attack that would have made it clear through, and a 2 skull attack that would have destroyed the big-bug. With 3 life remaining, Chela took out two Templars and took Grayson down to 2 life.

    But then a lucky 3 skull shot from a Fusilier went undefended and Chela was down. Weird. I probably shouldn't have risked going into 0-level water to hold the glyph, but it seemed better for Chela to have it then the base 4 defense knights.

    The Templars and Fusiliers cleaned up the Stingers, with attrition on both sides, and then the Hydra moved up.

    It was the Hydra versus 4 Fusiliers, 4 Templars and a 2 life Lord Grayson. One Templar made 3 defenses of 3 to hold off the Hydra (after it ate a Fusilier). The Hydra made some quick work of a few figures but then two Templars made a few lucky shots to take about 1 head a round.

    Game ended with 1 Fusiliers (across the board) and 2 Templars {points remaining 60}.

    --
    Chela was doing well but the high-defense of the Templars was tough to get through. I risked a 6 dice normal attack on Lord Grayson hoping to finish him off but only rolled 1 skull. That was an important turning point. I felt safe sitting on the defense glyph and full life & 2 Exo's - but three big melee attacks (even with the cloud) put a big dent in him.

    He had basically a 12 Life for the game and without a special attack on my side, I figured it would be rough for the Templars. Chela ended up destroying about 120 points, but I certainly had some bum defense rolls.

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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:23 am

    Thanks, that sounds like an awesome game. Did Chela feel right at 200 points or do you think he ought to be 210? Dropping his special to 3 makes using it a little riskier. What version of the Miasma Cloud did you use?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:57 pm

    Chela felt pretty solid at around 200. He's going to feel under-priced against non-specials and over-priced when folks like Kaemon Awa show up.

    I made sure to use figures on both sides that would be affected by the Cloud. I kept my Stingers outside of my own big-demon cloud. Against the Templars - it basically cancelled their height advantage. It would have been more awesome if I wasn't foolish enough to go in the water to hold the glyph.

    I even re-based mine last night .. and he does have trouble fitting on certain spots. Those gigantic feet of his : )
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    Nomad

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    Feel right?

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:26 pm

    Chela's points are really going to boil down to who is and isn't affected by the cloud.

    If demons are not affected, I'd go with the low end. If demons/soulborgs/etc are not affected, then the points bump up.

    A team of Chela and demons would be pretty nice to field and very thematic, but if demons are also affected, then Chela and Krav/Fusiliers/10th/Arrow Gruts/ or any other ranged squad is just as good, or better.

    You may have noticed, that thematically, I'd like to give the boost to demons.
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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:39 pm

    Kai,did you use the easier version of Miasma cloud, or the original.

    Damon, are you thinking about having just Demons, or Demons and Soulborgs. What is your opinion Kai?

    Do we want to make all small or medium figures effected? I think thematically I would rather stick with species, regardless of size- although it has merits changing it to size as well.
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    Nomad

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    Demons!

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:59 pm

    My vote is that Demons are not affected, period.

    Soulborgs don't need no help and if I were a soulborg, I'd be scared (soul or no soul). Undead . . . separate faction in my opinion - ghosts/vamps/etc would be afraid of this hulk! But demons? Lead us to the promised land big Chela Hero dude!

    Chela would end up being a stud for hire if he didn't have some species that wasn't affected and would end up in the same army as Q9, Raelin, Stingers, Rats, or any other current high valued build.

    Just my opinion.

    Until the Demon Hunters come along . . . who are immune.

    Yes - we will need to carefully play test Uval and the Harpies so that the combo is not too powerful, but the current demons could and should benefit (Mezzos, Morgoloth, and Skulls).

    Just my two cents.
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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:10 pm

    Looking forward to the demon hunters. Maybe some sort of value to/from Van Nessing? I could probably use 1 more squad here to (have 3 so far)

    I think all of the current Demons are OK with Chela, although the skull demons make me the most nervous.

    Probably 210.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:37 am

    I used these stats:

    Miasma Cloud
    All Figures that start their movement within 2 spaces of Chela have their move value reduced by 2. All figures within 2 spaces of Chela roll 1 less die when attacking and 1 less die when defending.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:38 am


    Question: Chela reduces a figures in the Cloud's move number by 2. What about something like the Blastatron/Gladiatron combo - where the Blastatrons get to move a Gladiatron 5 spaces?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:00 pm

    So I got in another Round of play-testing:

    CHELA
    Marro Stingers x3
    Marcu Esenwein
    Fen Hydra

    versus

    Lord Grayson
    Templars of Kyllian x3
    Bishop Thaddeus
    Sacred Fusiliers x2
    Concan

    --

    Team EVIL came away with a win despite a first OM betrayl by Marcu. Silly vampire.

    Chela and his vile contingent rolled out with Marro Stingers first and set up a laser-rifle perimeter. The Templars advanced, protected by Concan and the jungle cover. The Bishop and his Fusiliers uncovered a Defense +1 glyph while the Stingers hit an Intercept order that put the Templars behind an OM.

    As the battle was joined, the Templars again proved to have formidable defense (base 4 + Concan + Jungle) was tough for even the Stingers to get through. So the Bad-Guys called in their FEN Hydra and it went to work. The Hydra gobbled up a Fusilier, a Templar and even killed the Bishop in one hit (Thaddeus did lose a life earlier to a failed Forced March attempt). The Hydra then advanced on the Templar on the Defense glyph. Concan and the Templar rushed in (with Forced March) to attack the Hydra and retake the Glyph. The Hydra and the Templars exchanged shots and eventually the Hydra was sliced down to just one head.

    Chela moved up while the nearly-headless Hydra held back the melee opposition. Stingers also positioned on height to take shots at the Templar holding the Defense glyph.

    The "plan" was to have Chela engage a bunch of melee and then have the Stingers sitting back - taking advantage of Height + the Cloud to pick off the Templars and their valiant heroes. It didn't quite work - but I have to say that it was Templars rolling a lot of defense (4 + jungle + glyph, but then minus 1 for Chela) that led to a protected battle. Chela wasn't having much luck with his Venom claws either - as I was really missing the 4th die for his special when dealing with these big-defense commons.

    Concan and the Templars were throwing some good shots at the Demon - typical attacks of 4 were reduced to 3 and Chela was holding up alright. I was planning to keep his Exo's for big whiffs on defense, but then I was at 3 life and 2 exo's and two 2 skull shots made it passed his defense and I had to use the Exo's.

    Surprisingly Chela took down maybe 40-points (a Fusilier and a Templar) but after a while I focused OM's on the Stingers who were throwing 3 attacks of 4 compared to just 2 attacks with the Demon Lord. Since the Stingers were sitting back and picking off Templars - I did the same with my Fusiliers and kept them out of the Cloud - on height - and took shots at Chela. That was eventually how he went down.

    The Stingers cleared out the remaining Templar Heroes and the game ended with 4 Stingers and a full Marcu remaining on the field of battle.

    So while probably not the way to really use Chela - I wanted to see if the Cloud 'screen' would work for Range. It would have been much more effective against lower defense units.

    I would be comfortable with Chela in the Nilfheim/Zelrig range of 180-190 if his Cloud also hurt his own forces. I could see him at 200 but at that cost, I'd consider his Venom pincers back at attacks of 4. Maybe drop the potential extra wounds in favor of 4 attack, instead of 3?

    200-points is a lot for normal army builds .. and I'd hate him to be taken out a Q9 or Kaemon Awa really fast.




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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 pm


    CHELA !!!


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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:40 pm

    Question: Chela reduces a figures in the Cloud's move number by 2. What about something like the Blastatron/Gladiatron combo - where the Blastatrons get to move a Gladiatron 5 spaces?


    I would prefer it be impacted by the cloud, however their move value is what is reduced. So in this case I'd think the Glads would still get to move the 5 spaces.

    cool picture.
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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:04 am

    Edited the OP to reflect Demons alone are immune to Miasma Cloud. Should Venom Pincers Special Attack be changed to Pincer Crush Special attack? I like the Venom Pincers myself. Are we happy here- should we move him to final editing (I'll run a few more playtests today 1st).
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:58 am


    I like the VENOM PINCERS better : )
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    Derek S

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Derek S on Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:54 pm

    See Uvall and Harpies for playtests with Chela. Here were my thoughts on him.

    Chela only had to defend against a special (Quahon's once (maybe twice) in all 3 battles, he was hard to take down in 2 of the battles. The dwarf's are a good melee counter because they end up with their base stats (although the reduced move did come into play with them on 2 different occasions. I am good with 200 here although he at times played up to 210. This team is fair when played together.


    With one last additional- if we feel like he should be at 210 in the end I would rather drop his attack to 5 and keep him at 200.
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    Derek S

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    Proposal to move to final editing.

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:38 pm

    Any body got any problems with moving him to final editing?  Is there still concern he is pointed too high or too low (I know your last play test showed him at maybe 190 Kai, but that was against figures that have not yet been pointed so I am unsure what to do with the info).  Hasn't been much here lately and I think he is ready to move on if you 2 do.  Let me know.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: Wave 1.5 Chela released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:53 pm

    I think he is ready to go!!!
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    Nomad

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    Chela

    Post  Nomad on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:41 am

    Sorry, it has been a real busy week with work rapping up and all.

    I like where he stands right now. 200 points as is seems right to me. Let's go to final editing. I'll start working on the card tomorrow (the pic you sent a while ago will work just fine).

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