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    W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:29 pm


    Considering a name change to:

    BARON SEBASTIAN


    Baron is both an English and French title of nobility.

    Sebastian is a French name, and has its roots in Latin for "revered."


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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:22 pm

    I like the sound of that.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:29 pm

    Sounds good.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:57 am

    Getting ready to finalize here.

    FORCED MARCH
    Before rolling initiative, Lord Grayson may activate Forced March. If you win initiative, before revealing your first order marker, you may move 3 devout or loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces. Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks. If you lose initiative, assign 1 wound to either Lord Grayson or a devout or loyal figure you control.

    Do we want to drop "Loyal" from Forced March? Damon suggested that we drop it --> so it doesn't work with Warforged, Greenscales or Nagrubs.

    Devout figures include Kurrok and Pelloth, but mostly the Templars of Ascalon, the Sacred Fusiliers, and now the Cathar Spearmen.

    It would be pretty awesome for the Warforged ... so I'm tempted.

    Thoughts?

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:45 am

    How about making it 3 common devout or loyal figures you control. Not that Kurrok and Pelloth would be unbalanced by moving. You could still put a wound on the heros though. I dunno- maybe not.

    I would like to see Baron Sebastian in a couple of playtests with the warforged before finalizing this character if loyal is kept. Nagrubs are fast anyway so it might make them even more likely to outrun their hero. Greenscales could benefit from it but I am not so sure you could make better armies involving both. Warforged should be looked at, and I do like the option to cross army builds. Hopefully that all makes sense.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:16 pm

    Playtested this guy with the Warforged over the weekend and all was good there. Whatever happens with Devout or Loyal figures is good with me. I think this guy should move to final editing.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:48 pm

    I concur with final editing.

    Kai, let us know if you want to go just devout or both devout/loyal. I don't think the points would matter.

    Another excellent design!

    I'll get started on the two versions of the card in the next day or two.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:07 pm


    If Baron Sebastian wasn't broken with the "Loyal" Warforged, then let's keep it Loyal. Gets him more potential play-time as a Unique Hero.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:20 pm

    I didn't think they were broken at all with the Warforged. Derek didn't get any forced marches though, but they would still be tricky to play with order marker management. I like the versatility by keeping loyal in the power as well.

    Complete?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:30 pm


    Approved.

    Thank you.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:08 pm

    Here is the alternate card for Baron Sebastian.

    Please look at it very carefully for typos, errors, and needed improvements.

    I appreciate your feedback.



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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:28 am

    Thanks for the alternate picture.

    Card looks great and stats look perfect : )

    You are really getting good at this, Nomad
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:51 pm

    I think it should read '"any" leaving engagements'. Also, "Before rolling initiative, Baron Sebastian may active Forced March" doesn't quite sound right. The Drop is about the closest power I can think of and it refers to "you". So, maybe "Before rolling for initiative, if you control Baron Sebastian you may declare to activate Forced March".

    Card looks awesome and there are no errors so if my suggestions don't improve the card then leave it as is.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:55 am

    Since Huskies16 asked what a "Baron" was last night:

    Baron is a title of honour, often hereditary, and ranked as one of the lowest titles in the various nobiliary systems of Europe.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron


    ==
    Also regarding the wording on FORCED MARCH ... here's some existing samples:

    Airborne Elite
    THE DROP
    Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield. At the start of each round, before you place order markers, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may place all 4 Airborne Elite figures on any empty spaces. You cannot place them adjacent to each other or other figures, or on Glyphs.



    Maybe we can go with:
    FORCED MARCH
    At the start of each round, before rolling initiative, you may activate Forced March.  If you win initiative before revealing your first order marker you may move 3 devout or loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces.  Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks.  If you lose initiative assign 1 wound to either Baron Sebastian or a devout or loyal figure you control.




    I don't think we need the "Control" part because if Sebastian is destroyed you can't use his powers anyway. "Activate" is a word that I'm trying to remember seeing on another army card, but it might be a new term. If might be easier to say "... you may use Forced March."
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:52 am

    Nice catch on the wording, Derek. I scanned through 20+ cards that involve powers/20-sided rolls to use powers and they all use "you."

    Regarding "Activate"

    Siege's Card wrote:Crag of Steel

    When revealing a numbered order marker on Siege's Army Card, you may also reveal an "X" order marker that is on Siege's Army Card to activate Crag of Steel for the duration of the round. While Crag of Steel is active, add 3 to Siege's Defense value and subtract 2 from Siege's Attack and Move values. When Siege attacks while Crag of Steel is active, he may attack any or all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:10 pm

    Kai wrote:
    I don't think we need the "Control" part because if Sebastian is destroyed you can't use his powers anyway. "Activate" is a word that I'm trying to remember seeing on another army card, but it might be a new term. If might be easier to say "... you may use Forced March."

    Then when I am playing against someone with Baron Sebastion and I have devout/loyal characters, I am going to declare for forced march, and if I don't get it I'll wound Sebastian.
    .
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:37 pm

    Derek S wrote:Then when I am playing against someone with Baron Sebastion and I have devout/loyal characters, I am going to declare for forced march, and if I don't get it I'll wound Sebastian.

    Not sure that I follow. Players cannot use a power on an army card unless they control that army card.

    For example, Braxas' Poisonious Acid Breath says:
    "Instead of attacking, YOU may choose up to 3 different small or medium figures within 4 clear sight spaces of Braxas."

    From the D&D Master Set 3 Rulebook:

    Special powers and special attacks: Many figures have special powers or
    abilities that help them move, attack, defend, and more. Check your figure's
    Army Card to see what special powers or abilities (if any) your figure can
    use.
    If your Army Card includes a special attack (a special power with the
    words "Special Attack" in the name), you may use this attack instead of a
    normal attack.

    life: When a figure has as many wound markers as the Life number on its
    Army Card, it is destroyed. (A figure with only 1 Life is destroyed by only 1
    wound.) The player who controls the destroyed figure places it on the Army
    Card. When all figures on an Army Card have been destroyed, the Army Card is
    out of play.
    Do not reveal any unrevealed order markers that are on that card
    for that round of play. On future rounds, you can't take any turns for that card.
    At the beginning of the next round, any order markers still on that Army Card
    come back into play and can be placed in future rounds.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:31 pm

    That's what I get for trying to squeeze in some typing between calls at work. My concern here was how people are to know how to activate or use forced march. That is why I thought declare should be in there. Your revision is definitely ok with me, just trying for perfection (which is always a little cumbersome and annoying).
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:31 pm

    How about:

    FORCED MARCH
    At the start of each round, before rolling initiative, you may announce that you are using Forced March.  If you win initiative before revealing your first order marker you may move 3 devout or loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces.  Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks.  If you lose initiative assign 1 wound to either Baron Sebastian or a devout or loyal figure you control.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:20 pm

    Kai wrote:FORCED MARCH
    At the start of each round, before rolling initiative, you may announce that you are using Forced March. If you win initiative before revealing your first order marker you may move 3 devout or loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces. Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks. If you lose initiative assign 1 wound to either Baron Sebastian or a devout or loyal figure you control.

    or

    Before rolling for initiative you may announce Forced March. If you announce Forced March and win initiative you may immediately move 3 devout or loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces. Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks. If you announce Forced March and lose initiative place 1 wound marker on Baron Sebastian or a devout or loyal figure you control.

    Still some openness to which Baron if we both have one for those rule lawyers out there but I think the intent and process is clear enough for either option to work.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:44 pm

    Since this is a new power in HS, wording of previous cards is not something we can base all of our work on. Both of your wordings work for me.

    Since "activate" has been used by Siege I like it. The text below incorporates a few different cards. I don't think we need to say "If you announce forced march and win . . ." or "If you announce forced march and lose . . ." You may announce forced march, and, if so, this is what follows . . .

    How about this?

    FORCED MARCH
    At the start of each round before rolling for Initiative, you may announce that you are activating Forced March. If you win Initiative you may move 3 Devout or Loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces. Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks. If you lose Initiative, place a Wound Marker on Baron Sebastian or a Devout or Loyal figure you control.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Derek S on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:48 pm

    Sounds good to me.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:06 pm

    One more edit . . . I added one clause and one word to be similar to the Deathchasers. Let me know if this is OK or not.

    FORCED MARCH
    At the start of each round before rolling for Initiative, after all order markers have been placed, you may announce that you are activating Forced March. If you win Initiative you may move 3 Devout or Loyal figures you control up to 4 spaces each. Figures moved by Forced March will take any leaving engagement attacks. If you lose Initiative, place a Wound Marker on Baron Sebastian or a Devout or Loyal figure you control.

    And a card to match:



    Last edited by Nomad on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:04 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : added card and corrected Photobuckets issues)
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:22 pm


    Wording looks fine. It is a little redundant, since you don't roll initiative until all order markers are placed - but if it adds clarity to the timing - no big deal.

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Templar Hero - Baron Sebastian - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:32 pm

    Thanks for the input!

    Yes - tried to copy the wording of the Deathchasers card a bit . . . and it does sound redundant.

    One could read this with out that clause:

    Before rolling for initiaitve . . . well, I haven't placed my markers yet, and that is before rolling for initiative.

    With the clause:

    Before rolling for initiative, and after placing markers . . . oh, that is clear. Before I announce Forced March, I must have the order markers placed.

    I can certainly switch it back . . . I haven't printed the cards yet.

    Or, go with "At the start of each round, after all order markers have been placed, . . . "

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