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    W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

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    Derek S

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    W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:52 pm

    Shadow Slayers of Kresnik

    NWHC Wave 1 – The Faithful and the Fallen –Harpies and Hunter



    Figures- Confrontation Griffins of Akkylannie Demon Hunters Unit Box

    Planet- Feylund
    General- Aquilla

    Species: Hybrid
    Common Squad
    Class: Hunters
    Personality: Fearless
    Medium 5

    Life 1
    Move 6
    Range 5
    Attack 2
    Defense 3
    120 Points

    DUAL WEAPONS
    If a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik attacks an adjacent figure with his first attack, add 1 attack die. If a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik's first attack was against an adjacent figure, he may attack 1 additional time.

    STUDY OF THE DARK ARTS
    A Demon or Undead figure never receives height, terrain, or special power dice bonuses when attacking or defending against a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik.

    MASTERY OF THE DARK ARTS
    A Shadow Slayer of Kresnik may never have his defense, attack, or move reduced by an opponent's Demon or Undead Army Card. When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik you control, you may subtract 2 from the die roll.

    Bio:
    Deep in the basement in the back corner of the Royal Library, a group of young Kresnik watch as the strange elder, Konrad von Bramgur, tilts the book "Morindan Contaminated" to a 45% degree angle and pushes down.  The shelf twists 25 degrees exposing a narrow passage of stairs leading even further down.  Konrad urges the hand selected recruits to follow him down.
    When they reach the bottom of the stairs a large room is occupied by a group that Konrad calls the Shadow Slayers, "a group of the best hunters from Kresnik".  "But to become a Shadow Slayer it takes more than being a good hunter" Konrad explains, "it takes a belief that the evil monsters they encounter in the forests of Morindan can only be cured in the afterlife, thus the evil must be destroyed in this life, and this is why I have chosen you."  
    Konrad shows them books that only the Shadow Slayers know exist.  Books that delve into the darkness of the enemies they face.  "The Shadow Slayers must know every aspect of the darkness they face to truly defeat them.  But beware", Konrad warns, "for every verse read the reader is changed, becoming more and more like our adversaries, and if your heart is not pure, there is chance of becoming pure demon yourself."


    - Rulings and Clarifications -
    _______________________________________


    - Combinations and Synergies -

    Synergy Benefits Offered


    Synergy Benefits Received
    -Shadow Slayers of Kresnik: Mastery of the Dark Arts

    A Shadow Slayer of Kresnik may never have his attack, defense, or move values reduced by a Demon or Undead figures army card. Demon figures with powers on their army card that do not affect a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik include: Chela’s MIASMA CLOUD, Mezzodemon Warmongers POISON CLOUD, Skull Demon’s FRIGHTENING PRESENCE. Undead figures with powers on their army card that do not affect a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik include: Deathknights of Valkrill’s SOUL WEAPONS, Retchet’s of Bogdan’s LETHAL STING, Tomb Skeleton’s FLANKING, Zombie Hulk’s PARALYZING FEAR,
    -Sylvan Animae: Hunter Movement Enhancement
    As Hunters, the Shadow Slayers of Kresnik may benefit from the Sylvan Animae HUNTER MOVEMENT ENHANCEMENT movement bonus.
    Doggin Trackers: Tracker Ambush
    -Being a Hunter, a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik may benefit from the Doggin Tracker TRACKER AMBUSH attack bonus.
    -Konrad Von Bramgur: Accusation of Evil
    -Being a Fearless figure, a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik may benefit from Konrad Von Bramgur’s ACCUSATION OF EVIL marker attack bonus.
    -Konrad Von Bramgur: Flame of Devotion 15
    -Being a Hybrid figure, a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik may benefit from Konrad Von Bramgur's FLAME OF DEVOTION 15 ignore all wounds 20-sided die roll.


    Synergy Imposed
    -Demon or Undead Figures: Study of the Dark Arts

    A Demon or Undead figure never receives height, terrain, or special power bonuses when attacking or defending against a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik. Demon figures include: Mezzodemon Warmongers, Morgoloth, Skull Demon, Uvall, BloodHunter Harpies, Chela, Gald'rabok. Undead Figures include: Cyprien Eisenwein, Deathknights of Valkrill, Deathstrike Thrall, Iskra Eisenwein, Marcu Eisenwein, Nicholas Eisenwein, Phantom Knights, Preyblood Thrall, Retchets of Bogdan, Shades of Bleakwoode, Skeletons of Annellintia, Sonya Eisenwein, Sudema, Tomb Skeletons, Zombie Hulk, Zombies of Morindan, Bloodburst Thrall, Crypt Guardian.
    Figures with attack or defense aura’s may be affected if the aura is benefitting a Demon or Undead Figure attacking or Defending against a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik.
    -Shadow Slayers of Kresnik: Mastery of the Dark Arts
    When a Demon or Undead figure rolls the 20-sided dice against a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik the roll may be reduced by 2. Demon figures with a 20-sided roll that could affect a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik Include: BloodHunter Harpies’ BLOOD FRENZY 14.
    Undead figures with a 20-sided roll that could affect a Shadow Slayer of Kresnik Include: Cyprien Eisenwein’s CHILLING TOUCH, Sudema’s STARE OF STONE, Bloodburst Thrall's RUPTURE, .
    Akumaken: Mask of Terror
    Being a squad figure with the Fearless personality, the Shadow Slayers of Kresnik are not affected by Akumakens Mask of Terror.


    Last edited by Derek S on Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:53 am; edited 29 times in total
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:41 pm

    How many figures in the Squad?

    Van Nessing is a "Devout" "Hunter" - and I think he's the only one with that combo. If you were planning any other Unique Demon Hunter heroes, they could fit in that classificiation.

    They'll be pretty buff at 3/3 with both Range and Bonding, and potential extra attack against Demons/Undead. Probably close to 100 points. Maybe 95 if you plan to include Van Nessing (since he's 105).


    For IN THE SHADOWS - should you add something about not taking leaving engagements when the Hunters use In the Shadows?
    You can borrow from the Goblin Cutters Scurry. http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/goblin_cutters_card_original.jpg


    Very cool start!
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:46 pm

    Updated OP with Pic of 3 figures used and they are from confrontation.

    Also reworded in the Shadows.
    In The Shadows
    If a Demon Hunter is attacked by a Demon or Undead figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher you may ignore the attack and move up to 4 spaces. If you are on a shadow space you may add 4 to your roll. When a Demon Hunter uses In The Shadows he never takes leaving engagement damage and cannot end his move adjacent to an opponents figure.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:00 am

    I am not completely sold on any of these powers so make suggestions. Should his double attack only be possible if attacking a Demon? I think Bonding might make these guys cost too much so do we even want to consider it? Should his double attack be more like Fire and Rush from Sam Brown? Should the In the Shadows only work against Demons and Undead?
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    Nomad

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    Demon Hunters!

    Post  Nomad on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:41 am

    Yes - I have been waiting for these guys!

    I would like it if somewhere they were immune to any special powers Demons might inflict on them (Miasma Cloud, Mezzo's +1 against Squadies, Harpies strike, Skull Demons +1 attack, etc.)

    The In the Shadows power seems like two separate powers - I don't think they really need an extra boost for being on a shadow tile.

    I do like the ability to throw of an engaged range attack on a demon - fits the sculpt.

    Nice start - let's do some more brainstorming. I wouldn't mind keeping them simpler - perhaps just the immunity to demon powers and the extra ranged attack while engaged.

    Just my initial thoughts . . . I'm not pushing for anything yet.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:43 am

    Damon wrote:I would like it if somewhere they were immune to any special powers Demons might inflict on them (Miasma Cloud, Mezzo's +1 against Squadies, Harpies strike, Skull Demons +1 attack, etc.)


    Fearless in the Face of Evil
    A Demon Hunter may never have his attack, defense or move reduced by any special powers listed on an opponents card


    I guess only addresses Miasma cloud and other powers that reduce their attack, defense or move.
    How about.

    Study of the Arts of Evil
    A Demon or Undead figure never receives any bonuses from glyph's, height, or special powers when attacking or defending against a Demon Hunter.  When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Demon Hunter, the roll must be reduced by 2.

    Fearless in the Face of Evil
    A Demon Hunter may never have his attack, defense or move reduced by any special powers listed on an opponents card.

    Dedicated to the Cause?
    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack a demon or undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.


    Also probably reducing their attack to 2 with a defense of 3.  I wouldn't mind trying to limit the powers to 2 but I don't think Fearless and Study should be combined, and I like the Dedicated.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:06 am

    or combined,



    Fearless in the Face of Evil
    A Demon Hunter may never have his attack, defense or move reduced by any special powers listed on an opponents card. 
    When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Demon Hunter, the roll must be reduced by 2.



    This still leaves them vunerable to the +1, height, and glyphs but I think something may have to give to get down to 2 powers, and this is pretty easy to keep track of.  I think the first line is important thematically.  The second works thematically as well (although not getting attack bonuses would be too).  This still gives the demons a chance against their nemesis.  Let me know what you all think.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:03 am

    I stole part of this from the Book of Van Nessing:


    D20 rolls …

    UNDEAD
    Cyprien Esenwein : Chilling Touch
    Deathstrike Thrall : Mindless Pack
    Iskra Esenwein : Summon the Retchets of Bogdan
    Marcu Esenwein : Eternal Hatred Benefit offered to an opponent Marcu Esenwein !
    Preyblood Thrall : Mindless Pack
    Shades of Bleakewoode : Soul Devour
    Skeletons of Annelintia : Necromancy
    Sudema : Stare of Stone

    DEMON
    Uvall, Demon of Wrath:  Demonic Exchange
    Bloodhunter Harpies:  Blood Frenzy

    --
    The big modifiers that I was thinking for opponent's cards are things like:  Zelrig and Red Wyrmlings (which would be awesome) and Skull Demons 'Frightening Presence.'  And then of course CHELA'ls miasma cloud : P

    Would the Gladiatrons be affected?  They make it so a figure cannot move - not that they reduce the move to zero.
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:19 am

    Kai wrote:The big modifiers that I was thinking for opponent's cards are things like:  Zelrig and Red Wyrmlings (which would be awesome) and Skull Demons 'Frightening Presence.'  And then of course CHELA'ls miasma cloud : P


    Fearless in the Face of Evil
    A Demon Hunter may never have his attack, defense or move reduced by any special powers listed on an opponents card.

    The Demon Hunters (name still needs work) would deal with Zelrig, Red Wyrmlings, Skull Demons, Miasma Cloud, Kira Jax (maybe), Retchets, Deathstalkers, and more (I'll figure them all out tomorrow and post)

    Study In the Arts of Evil
    A Demon or Undead figure never receives any bonuses from glyph's, height, or special powers when attacking or defending against a Demon Hunter.  When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Demon Hunter, the roll must be reduced by 2.

    A whole bunch more if we include some form of this.

    Kai wrote:

    Would the Gladiatrons be affected?  They make it so a figure cannot move - not that they reduce the move to zero.

    I think the Glads power would trump because figures can't move, they're not reducing the move, we would probably have to come up with a FAQ here.  Two powers that ignore other cards- interesting.
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    Nomad

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    Hunters

    Post  Nomad on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:57 am

    I don't mind trying all three powers - they are not too wordy and should fit on a card.

    The Gladiatrons would trump . . . "Figures affected by the Cyberclaw cannot be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph." But it would probably need to be added as a FAQ.

    I'm thinking these guys are going to be priced around 100.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:08 pm

    Updated the OP with where I think we currently have these guys.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:25 am

    I'm not sure that the last power as listed in the OP is necessary . . . are these guys immune to all opponents special powers listed on their cards? I was thinking that they would be more of niche squad equipped to do battle against evil. This would lower their cost as well.

    Just my two cents . . .
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:43 am

    The last power is what makes them immune to Chelas cloud, Mezzo's common attack reducer, the bigger demon's fear defense reducer. Very important to the theme I think. Definitely ups their cost. Also gives them a little counter playability against Zelrig and a few others.

    The other power keeps the demon/ undead faction from getting bonuses against the demon hunters, which fits the theme as well. If we were to drop one I would be in favor of this power, and upping the base defense of these guys.
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:51 am

    Dedicated to the Cause
    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die.  After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack a demon or undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.  


    If a Demon Hunter is surrounded by 3 Zombies, he can attack Zombie # 1 and then attack # 2.  I am wondering if he can also attack Zombie # 3 since he will have 'attacked an adjacent figure' and there is another undead within 5 spaces.

    It sort of makes sense that a Demon Hunter can whirlwind attack all demons/undead around him, but I think you intended this for just two attacks, right?  One melee and one potentially ranged.


    These guys are looking good.  I picked up one unit box, so I have 2 squads ready when we get to playtesting stage.

    I could see them around 80 points though.  They have some powers like the M43 Priority Targeting and ranged attacks (65 points) and three powers like 10th Reg (75 points) and multi-attack like Shaolin Monks (80 points).
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:57 am

    OK, I see the intent of the 3rd power. Thanks for clarifying.

    I agree with Kai that the number of attacks needs to be clarified . . . perhaps word so that the first attack is adjacent and that they get one non-adjacent attack.

    80 points might be about right and a good place to start play testing.
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:36 pm

    If they have 2 Zombies next to a demon hunter, and 1 four spaces away, the intent is they could attack 1 adjacent and then choose another demon or undead figure to attack. They could choose the other adjacent figure, the 1 four spaces away, or the first one they attacked if they didn't kill him.

    Dedicated to the Cause?
    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack a demon or undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.

    If Raelin & a zombie were next to a demon hunter, and a zombie was 5 spaces away they could attack Raelin and then choose which Zombie to attack. Or they could attack the adjacent Zombie and if they kill it attack the one 5 spaces away (but not Raelin), if they didn't kill the adjacent Zombie, they could choose which Zombie to attack.

    Any ideas for wordsmithing to make the actions of the power more clear?
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:52 pm

    A simple fix that limits the total number of attacks to two is all that is needed. Any thing more than two attacks from a squad of three would see their points jump skyward. I will think about how to word it now that I know the intent.

    Incredibly awesome design. These guys will be fun to bring to the battlefield!
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:08 pm

    how about

    Dedicated to the Cause?
    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack a demon or undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.
    becomes

    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack one additional time against a demon or undead figure. An engaged demon hunter may target and attack a non-adjacent Demon or undead figure with the additional attack.
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:55 pm

    Derek wrote:Dedicated to the Cause?
    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack a demon or undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.
    becomes

    When attacking an adjacent figure add one attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure a Demon Hunter may attack one additional time against a demon or undead figure. An engaged demon hunter may target and attack a non-adjacent Demon or undead figure with the additional attack.

    How about?

    DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE
    When attacking an adjacent figure, add 1 attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure, a Demon Hunter may attack one additional time against a Demon or Undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.

    We do need to come up with a different name for these guys . . .
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:20 pm

    Much better.  Yes they still need a name.  Do they still need the within 5 spaces part (implies they don't need clear line of site) as that is their range # anyways.

    DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE
    When attacking an adjacent figure, add 1 attack die. After attacking an adjacent figure, a Demon Hunter may attack one additional time against a any Demon or Undead figure within 5 spaces even if they are still engaged.

    would removing the green and changing a to any suffice?
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:26 pm

    That looks really good to me - dump the green part and the strike through.
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:25 pm

    Got some playtesting in with these guys.  Decided on Relentless for personality and dropped points to 80.  We had some concerns with the wording in Study In the Arts of Evil.  These guys still need
    1. A name (suggestions please)
    2. Final decision on General and Planet.
    3. A few more playtests before moving to final editing.
    4. A new name for Dedicated to the Cause power.
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:29 pm


    Here is a Wiki article on the "Malleus Maleficarum" - the medieval guide to witch and demon hunting : )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

    Might give you some ideas for the names of Powers or the Witch Hunters themselves.

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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:36 pm

    So I wrote comments on the Demon Hunters yesterday and then the internet crapped out on me and I lost it all.  So hopefully I remember everthing this time:

    --

    Study In the Arts of Evil
    A Demon or Undead figure never receives any bonuses from glyph's, height, terrain, or special powers when attacking or defending against a Demon Hunter.  When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Demon Hunter, the roll must be reduced by 2.

    I have reservations about countering the power of Glyphs.  Purely from a story background, if we allow the Demon Hunters to cancel the effects of a glyph that would be a high level of power.  Glyphs are a magical construct that can affect an entire army and I think they represent some of the greatest magic in the world of Valhalla.  To say that the Demon Hunters can counter that might imply that they have more power than the Arch-Kyrie.

    And countering Terrain and Height Advantage are tough concepts for me to get around.  If they could Fly, I could see a rationale for them countering Height Advantage.  I know that the MicroCorp Troopers introduced "Hard Target" but I also think that players are so trained to apply/seek to get Height Advantage that this modifier might often be forgotten or miss-rolled, leading to confusion.

    My recommendation would be to change Study in the Arts of Evil to:

    A Demon or Undead figure never receives any bonuses from glyph's, height, terrain, or special powers when attacking or defending against a Demon Hunter.  When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Demon Hunter, the roll must be reduced by 2.


    Then we change Dedicated to the Cause to:


    When attacking an undead or demon figure, Demon Hunters add 1 to their attack.  When defending against an attack by an undead or demon figure, add 1 to their defense.  After attacking an adjacent figure, a Demon Hunter may attack one additional time.  That additional attack may be against any Demon or Undead figure even if they are still engaged.

    This makes the Demon Hunters 3/4 against demons and undead.  It also gives them double-attack against ANY opponent but they must make a melee attack to trigger the 2nd attack. Two attacks of 2 is less than the Shaolin or Quasatch but they can also attack out of engagement.

    --

    I am also a little concerned about making a unit that basically neuters a particular monster type.  We don't do a lot of drafting, but I wouldn't want to be the person in the mood for Cyprien or marching out the Deathknights in a casual game, only to be perfectly countered by these Hunters.  

    I remember a game where Damon was running the Deathcommander and Deathstalkers and I ran the Repulsors and Omnicrons.  It was a pre-made armies event and these two just happened to face down against each other but I think the Repulsors were meant to stop Glads/Blasts and Q-9 .. not the lower-rated Deathwalker soulborgs.  I think the game was not so "fun" for Damon, as my army had a perfect counter for his and the advantage was too heavily swung back to Repulsors.

    Now in our play-test matches, the Demon Hunters weren't "broken" but I don't know how much fun they will be in counter-draft situations.


    Recommendation:

    DEMON HUNTERS
    Fearless
    Medium 5
    Life 1
    Move 6
    Range 5
    Attack 2
    Defense 3
    Points- 90 {going with 90 since they always have double-attack in this build}

    Study In the Arts of Evil
    A Demon or Undead figure never receives any bonuses from special powers when attacking or defending against a Demon Hunter.  When a Demon or Undead rolls the 20-sided die for a special power against a Demon Hunter, the roll must be reduced by 2.

    Dedicated to the Cause
    When attacking an undead or demon figure, Demon Hunters add 1 to their attack.  When defending against an attack by an undead or demon figure, add 1 to their defense.  After attacking an adjacent figure, a Demon Hunter may attack one additional time.  That additional attack may be against any Demon or Undead figure even if they are still engaged.

    Fearless in the Face of Evil
    A Demon Hunter may never have his attack, defense or move reduced by any special powers listed on an opponents card.


    (needs some word-smithing)
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    Re: W1 Shadow Slayers of Kresnik- RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:36 am

    Some great thoughts there! I will address when I have a little more time to process it all.

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