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    W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:25 am


    No additional comments here .. this guy is coming along nicely.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:05 am

    Myrddin is a human from Toril so I would probably choose that route myself. Let's weigh this out.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:37 am

    Derek wrote:Myrddin is a human from Toril so I would probably choose that route myself. Let's weigh this out.

    Interesting, but I don't understand why a human would come from Toril (must be part of why all figures from the D&D waves were from Toril - but Myrddin is a C3V figure! Of course, my understanding of D&D is underwhelming).

    I was just throwing out some suggestions to get the ball rolling. A human from Toril works for me, you just need to come up with a name.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:10 pm

    OP updated with
    Name- Dakolli(Da Co yi)
    Species- Human
    Planet- Toril

    Name unless some one can come up with a better rearranging of Kai Doll (the mage of northwest customs).

    Species- Tandros is a human from Toril as well so unless you guys think half elf or a different planet are in order.

    After this if everyone is in agreement should he move on to playtesting phase.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:18 pm

    Works for me. Let's play-test!
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:34 pm

    Bumped points to 150 after some playtests. Need to
    1. Make sure Dragon Sting is worded so that only the same figure can be stung in succession if the roll warrents.
    2. Change Illusion power to 2 different powers- one offense and one defense, and rename.
    3. Change personality from Tricky to Illusionary (if we all think illusionary is the best option- I am not so sure).
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:47 pm

    sounds good.

    Could keep personality as Tricky and change class to Illusionist.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:34 pm

    Changed name to Kyrlin and class to illusionist. Separated last power


    Phantasm
    When rolling attack dice for Kyrlin, all shields rolled count as 2 additional hits.

    Conceal
    When rolling Defensive dice for Kyrlin, all skulls rolled count as additional shields.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:40 pm

    What? No Spicolie? I was growing fond of the name

    Just throwing out thoughts here . . .

    Figure Used-  Confrontation Lions Manilia Hero Box

    Name- Kyrlin
    General- Ullar
    Planet- Toril

    Human
    Unique Hero
    Illusionist
    Tricky
    Medium 5

    Life-5
    Move-5
    Range-5
    Attack-2
    Defense-2
    Points-150

    Dragon Sting
    After moving and before attacking, you may choose any figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Kyrlin. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives 1 wound. You may continue to use Dragon Sting until you do not inflict a wound.

    Kyrlin can target a different figure if the first Dragon Sting is successful, right? If not, then this wording would need to be tweaked. For the wording ideas below, I like the way Shields of Valor reads for the Sentinels of Jandar rather than Zetacron/Minions.

    Phantasm
    When attacking with Kyrlin, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits.

    Conceal
    When defending with Kyrlin, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block.

    Do we need to do some more play testing?
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:00 pm

    The intent is to be like Sujuoh- only attacking 1 figure and seeing how poisonous the sting is.

    I am still not convinced we need to separate the last 2 powers, Zaiken has both offense and defense in the same power with different values attached. I think I liked it better as one, what about you guys? I do like your wording if they stay separate.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:38 pm

    I am not sure they need to be separate anymore either with the simpler wording. I also added a few words to my suggestion for Dragon Sting.

    What do you think?

    Dragon Sting
    After moving and before attacking, you may choose any figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Kyrlin. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives 1 wound. You may continue to use Dragon Sting on the chosen figure until you do not inflict a wound.

    Illusion
    When attacking with Kyrlin, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits. When defending with Kyrlin, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:26 am


    My recommendation was to keep the powers separate since the offensive power doubled shields into skulls, and the defensive power took skulls 1:1 to shields. Might get confusing.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:16 am

    Just wondering about a possible change and what you guys thought. If this guy gets height, has a glyph, or other bonuses he is going to be crazy good as written. Do you think we should put a cap on how many shields he can count as 2 skulls, and how many skulls he can count as shields. So,

    Illusion
    When attacking with Kyrlin, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits. When defending with Kyrlin, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block.

    would become something like,

    When attacking with Kyrlin and at least one shield is rolled, one shield may be counted for 2 additional hits. When defending with Kyrlin and at least one skull is rolled, one skull may be counted as 1 additional shield(block).

    I could even see making the skull count as 2 shields here, making the mechanics the same. This would keep him in check as he gets more and more dice to roll.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:40 am

    Army Idea:

    Kyrlin .. 150
    Finn .. 80
    Knights of Weston x3 .. 210
    Zetacron .. 60
    = 500 points

    After Finn is destroyed, his Spirit Aura bumps Kyrlin's Phantasm : P


    --
    He is a figure that will be greatly affected by glyphs and other boosts. If you are concerned that he'll be unbalanced, you could make his offensive power a "Special Attack" so it is not modified by Height or Glyphs.

    Phantasm Special Attack
    Range: 5 Attack: 2
    When attacking with Phantasm Special Attack, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits.


    But his "Conceal" can stay a special power so it can be modified.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:54 am

    That just might be the way to go.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:50 pm

    I like the idea of making it a special attack also.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:34 pm

    I'll update the OP with Where we are at, which is currently

    Name- Kyrlin
    General- Ullar
    Planet- Toril

    Human
    Unique Hero
    Illusionist
    Tricky
    Medium 5

    Life-5
    Move-5
    Range-5  This may change
    Attack-2  This may change
    Defense-2
    Points-150 ?

    Dragon Sting
    After moving and before attacking, you may choose any figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Kyrlin. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives 1 wound. You may continue to use Dragon Sting on the chosen figure until you do not inflict a wound.

    Phantasm range 5 attack 2
    When attacking with Phantasm Special Attack, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits.

    Conceal
    When defending with Kyrlin, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block.

    His base range and attack could be changed to 1 and 3 (or 4) which fits with the sword better.  Let me know what you think of current changes.

    PS- I liked the name Zarius Wyrmelder but wasn't sure if that was only appropriate for a half-elf (which this guy isn't, I don't think).
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:20 pm

    I like Kyrlin . . . same breed as Myrddin. It works for me. Or you could go with Wyrmlin for the baby dragon on his shoulder - nah, that is too much like Wyrmling.

    The way I look at the sculpt:

    - he uses his staff thingy for his Phantasm Special Attack - Range 5, Attack 2. (So the most damage he could do his 2 dice would be 4 hits with the average being .33x2x2 + .5x1x2 = 2.33 skulls per roll. If we bumped the special to 3, the max would be 6 and that would be .33x2x3 +.5x1x3 = 3.5 skulls per roll . . . just food for thought, although 3.5 skulls is the equivalent of a 7 die attack on average . . . maybe too high).

    - he uses his sword for melee attacks when he wants, so yes, I would drop his normal range to 1 but bump the attack to 4. Even height, he would be rolling 2 skulls on average, so you would still use your SA. But with height or an attack glyph, you would get 5 dice for an average of 2.5, which means you would go with the normal attack. If you kept it at 3 attack dice, you would never use his normal attack.

    - with a defense of 2 and skulls counting as shields, the average defense roll would be 1.67 blocks. On average, you would need some one with an attack of 4 or better to damage the guy. I like it.

    Play testing will determine points, I'm think 140 to 150 right now. He will be a blast to play with - great ideas!


    Last edited by Nomad on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:13 am

    Thanks for the mathmatics you mathmatician.  I'll make the changes to range 1 attack 4.  Spicolli does after all weild a big....sword.

    The only thing I could see would be upping his range my 1 on the SA (I am not in favor).
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:45 am

    The SA to a range of 6 is possible. Changing the Dragon Sting up to a range of 5 is also possible.

    Let's test at SA for 5 and Sting at 4 to see where we are at. Thoughts?


    Last edited by Nomad on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:05 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added the last question)
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:01 am

    Can we move the Wizard to play testing? What stats do you want me to go with?

    He is so close.

    Can I suggest "Kyrllin" - the double 'l' matches the double 'd' in Myrddin?


    Last edited by Nomad on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added the last question)
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:37 am

    Kyrllin it is. Stats in op should be good. Last power is essentially the same written twice, choose which you like better and he is ready for playtesting.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:58 am

    So I was thinking a little bit about this special attack and it has become quite a bit thwarted from it's original. So I was wondering what you all thought about leaving his base range at 5 and changing the special attack from

    Phantasm range 5 attack 2
    When attacking with Phantasm Special Attack, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits.

    Phantasm
    When Kyrllin attacks, each shield rolled counts as 2 additional hits. No more than 2 shields can be used this way.

    Obviously needs wording here, and I am not all that sure I like it better, just a throwing it out there to see which way you guys prefer.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:51 pm


    If Phantasm is a normal attack it could get pretty powerful when modified by an Attack Glyph or Height.

    Still, he's a 150 points so maybe that's okay. He's concept seems to be rolling less dice but the probability of inflicting wounds is higher. If he got up to 4 attack (say Unique Attack glyph + Height) he'd be wicked and could end up with 8 wounds on 4 dice (rolling 4 shields). The chances of that seem really slim though.

    Even at 3 dice (since we all try for height advantage) he's probably inline with a 5 dice attack from Sonlen with height.

    If you were going to limit it - maybe you could say something like "When Kryllin attacks with Phantasm the most wounds you can inflict are equal to the number of combat dice rolled." So if he's throwing 3 dice then he can't do more than 3 wounds.


    In the few play-tests I saw he was just super-consistent (always get 1-2 skulls and 1-2 shields for defense).


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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:01 pm

    Hmm . . . I will have to do the math, but the limit on the number of skulls seems cumbersome. Not only would you count shields as double skulls you also have a limit on the number of total hits. Just my thoughts. I didn't think making it a special attack thwarted his attack, it just made it so there was less variability with glyphs, attack auras, height, etc. Plus, he gets to do his dragon sting first . . . just my thoughts at this time.

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