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    W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

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    Derek S

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Derek S on Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:26 pm

    Yeah, I really like him, just throwing out some brainstorming (heavy on the storming light on the brain with me). Laughing
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:24 am

    Ran a playtest with:

    Tawarthion ... 100-110
    Sylvan Animae x3 ... 220
    Wyvern x2 ... 420
    F. Spiders x2 .. 500

    versus

    Sgt. Drake (SotM) ... 170
    Sam Brown ... 230
    4th Mass Line x4 .. 510


    http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//grendel1_HsX.jpg


    I don't think that I played the 4th Mass very well. I also wanted to get Sgt Drake into the action a little quicker. The 4th had a few chances to take shots at Tawarthion early but I didn't want to activate "Forest Avenger." Drake did move up early enough to take out a Wyvern in one shot (with help from a Unique Attack glyph and Height). The 4th Mass were trying to hold a +2 Move glyph .. and they held it for a while.

    The Wyvern and Spiders were doing a surprising amount of damage - mostly to 4th Mass that were holding glyphs.

    After some attrition, both Wyverns were down and 5 of the spiders and only 1 Animae, but the 4th were down to one squad with Sam & Drake. Drake took 2 wounds but had a healing potion to get back to full Life.

    In the showdown, Tawarthion's Spirit Transfer worked to get into position. Finally the Primordial took 2 wounds and then Forest Avenger kicked in to make the Sylvans 4/4 for several Order Markers. That really changed the tide and Sam Brown went down fast and then Drake had 5 wounds. Drake made it to Tawarthion to hopefully take him out and drop the Forest Avenger bonus. Poor dice rolling kept Tawarthion healthy and then Drake fell to the Animae assault.

    It wasn't until last 2 rounds that the Forest Avenger kicked in - but it was pretty powerful. I could have Spirit Transferred Tawarthion back to the start zone - to keep the 'Avenger bonus going .. but I kept the OM's on the Sylvans to keep the pressure on.

    It was only one playtest ... but without an Aura or Space limit for Forest Avenger, Tawarthion is pretty powerful. It is a lot like taking out Allistair MacDirk. Once he's wounded - the MacDirks are nasty. But take him down - and they are back to 2/2 weak melee. At least Allistair can 'wound himself' to start buffing up the Squad.

    Order Marker management is very challenging .. as is deciding which units to support the Forest Primordial and the Animae (usually averaging around 250-points to buff the units).

    More play-testing is certainly needed : )
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:23 pm

    Rematch:

    Round 1:
    Jandar:  3 OM’s on 4th Mass
    Aquilla:  OM 1-2-X on Tawarthion, OM 3 on Spiders

    Jandar wins initiative.  4th Mass move up to take high ground and angle toward the two power glyphs.  Tawarthion advances with Sylvans in tow.  4th Mass reach Defense +1 glyph, and take a shot at Tawarthion – who won’t reach any Minute Men on his next turn.  The Primordial takes 2 wounds despite having jungle bush + Sylvan bonus.  After taking the 2 wounds, I decide to pull Tawarthion back into a tree + shadow spot and just move up Sylvans to engage the closest Mass Line (though no attacks because it is just Movement Bonding).
    4th Mass take out one Sylvan on OM3.  Wyvern pounces on 4th Mass but does not get a kill (likely thanks to Defense Glyph).

    Round 2:
    Jandar:  3 OM’s on 4th Mass
    Aquilla:  OM 1-2 on Sylvans, OM 3-X on Spiders

    Aquilla wins initiative and 2 Sylvans move up to take out 2 Minute Men (yay! for 4 attack dice Animae).  The 4th respond with a few attacks from height but a 4 Shield and 3 Shield defense roll keep all targeted Syvlans safe.  On OM2 – the Sylvans control a Defense glyph and take out 2 Mass Line.  A side-by-side pair of Sylvans on height are rolling 7 defense against the Minute Men.  OM3 has the Spiders control a +1 Common Attack but the Spiders don’t get through for any wounds.  The 4th Mass Wait-then-Fire (WTF) and take out the Spider on the Common Attack and one of the 7-defense Sylvans (3 skull perfect roll versus only 2 shields).

    Round 3:
    Jandar:  3 OM’s on 4th Mass
    Aquilla:  OM 1-X on Sylvans, OM 2-3 on Spiders

    Jandar wins initiative with a 20 compared to Aquilla’s 18.  The Mass Line take some shots and get the Sylvan off the Defense glyph.  The Spiders get a Wyvern up to snatch a 4th mass from height and then recapture the Defense glyph (but doesn’t take out the Minute Man).  The 4th WTF and roll 11 out of 12 skulls killing the Wyvern and taking out a Sylvan.  The other Wyvern lands on the Common Attack glyph and takes out a 4th Mass.  As the round ends, Jandar has only lost 5 of 16 Minute Men, and Aquilla has 2 wounds on Tawarthion, lost 3 of 6 spiders and 4 of the 9 Sylvans.

    Round 4:
    Jandar:  3 OM’s on 4th Mass
    Aquilla:  OM 2-3 on Sylvans, OM 1-X on Tawarthion

    Jandar wins initiative and gets in some shots on the Wyvern holding the attack glyph (inflicts 2 wounds) and clear out some Spiders that were engaging.  OM1 has Tawarthion grab a treasure (Teleport) and movement bond 3 Sylvans into position.  On OM2 Sylvans move up for a 3-on-3 versus the Minute Men but despite the Attack Glyph and +2 from Forest Avenger only kill one 4th soldier.  On OM3 the 4th finish off the Wyvern but don’t take out any Sylvans (one 4 shield defense saves the day).  The Sylvans are only able to take one more 4th Mass out.

    Round 5:
    Jandar:  3 OM’s on 4th Mass
    Aquilla:  OM 1-2 on Sylvans, OM 3-X on Tawarthion

    Aquilla wins initiative (12 to 1).  Sylvans fan out to get in position to take on 4th Mass (and set up Spirit Transfer multi-attack).  No kills by Sylvans though (bad dice rolling on the only attack available).  4th Mass make it to the Common Attack glyph on OM1 and suddenly the tide is turned.  Sylvan on height with 5 defense can’t block a 3 skull perfect shot and then two other Sylvans go down.  Only 2 Sylvans left and they kill one Minute Man.  Then the WTF with Common Attack firing-squad goes off .. killing Tawarthion, the last two Sylvans and a lost Spider.
    Game ends with full life Sgt. Drake, full life Sam Brown, and two full squads of 4th Mass Line.  Ouch.

    --
    The Sylvans and Tawarthion just couldn't get in enough attacks-per-order marker to keep up with the 4th Mass.  It was a little embarrassing for Aquilla.  Some lucky defense by the Minute Men and when it mattered their Ranged attacks were too much for the melee army they faced (even with the high defense of the Animae).

    The board was certainly a factor for melee getting into position.  There are some steep climbs for the Sylvans .. so that could have been a factor.

    Tawarthion was more of a Cheerleader in this game.  To compare to Zaiken - who really leads his troops into battle - Tawarthion got hurt - and then stopped advancing so that he could keep the bonus attack dice engine running for his Animae (which was kind of boring).

    The Wyverns were a nice touch as an army compliment.  They helped clear out the 4th Mass and actually took Glyphs (which is odd in a normal match but since they were only going with one OM per round on average, they did well for the role that I asked them to play).  But 4th Mass with Height and WTF and 4 figures to attack with was just too much
    .
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    Nomad

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:17 pm

    Two excellent play-test reports!

    So, they are 1 win each at this point. Team Aquilla seemed really powerful in the first match, but couldn't overcome some hot dice rolling in the second.

    Grendel does seem to favor ranged shooters if they can get to height before their opponent.

    After two matches, does Tawarthion and Sylvan still seem too strong? Or was the first match an aberration? Probably too early to tell.

    Thanks again. I will try to get in a test myself as soon as I'm able.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:13 am

    I think a few more play-tests are in order .. with a different map. I wanted to push it against an A+ unit like the 4th Mass to see how it would work out. Also against range - wanted to see if Jungle Transformation would help. At one point - a pair of Sylvans were protecting each other - for 5 defense against range - and that was fun (for a 40-point squad).

    It is the lack of offensive punch that keeps the Sylvans from being overpowered. Even with Tawarthion's Forest Avenger. It is easy enough to avoid shooting at Tawarthion - and he doesn't threaten much in response (normally 1 attack of 4).

    Would welcome more testing.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:52 am

    yeah for the reports, I'll try to get a few in on Friday if I can. Tawarthian looks fun.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:09 am

    Here's another report for a  Tawarthion playtest today (12/30):

    EINAR versus AQUILLA Playtest:

    Einar
    Kaemon Awa
    Marcus Decimus
    Roman Legion x1
    10th Regiment of Foot x3

    Versus

    Tawarthion
    Sylvan Animae x3
    Wyvern # 1
    Wyvern # 2
    Fyorlag Spiders x2

    Map:  Blackroot

    Round 1:
    Einar OM1:  Romans OM2, X:  10th  OM3:  Kaemon
    Aquilla OM1, 3, X:  Tawarthion  OM2:  Sylvans

    Einar wins initiative and the Romans and Marcus move to a nice spot with height near the road.  10th Reg moves up to be adjacent to Marcus to snipe figures moving up.  They get one shot on a Sylvan (4 attack) but doesn’t get through (4 defense + 1 for being adjacent to another Sylvan).  
    Tawarthion moves up to a road space and uses Woodland Commander to move 3 Sylvans to support.  On OM2 the Sylvans move – using an OM so that they can get the road bonus.  Two Sylvans engage Marcus and a 10th and two whiffs by Einar put a wound on Marcus and kill a Foot soldier.  On OM3 Kaemon Awa slides up adjacent to Marcus and the pair of Animae and kills one with 4 skulls but 1 skull on the second attack doesn’t make it through.  On OM3 + X, Tawarthion does the Spirit Transfer to the remaining Sylvan – switching places.  This puts him next to Kaemon, so he moves to even ground and swings at Kaemon for 3 skulls but nicely blocked with 3 shields but 4 skulls wipes out a 10th soldier.

    Round 2:
    Einar OM1, 2:  10th Reg, OM 3, X:  Kaemon
    Aquilla OM1, X:  Tawarthion  OM2:  Sylvans  OM3:  Spiders
    I realize while placing OM’s that Tawathion is in a bad spot.  Two 10th are adjacent to Marcu and two more are in range for a Wait then Fire that could end the Primordial.  I decide that a retreat is in order, so OM1 and X are a plan for a Spirit Transfer away.
    Einar wins initiative though and the blackpowder shots ring out.  10th Reg roll 2 skulls (blocked), 1 skull (blocked), 2 skulls (take 2 wounds) and 2 skulls (blocked).  Tawarthion escapes then moves to grab a treasure glyph (Belt – Giant Str).  The 10th take some shots at Tawarthion and the Sylvans but don’t get through.  On OM2 the “Forest Avengered” Sylvans with 4 attack move up and get 1 wound on Kaemon but can’t kill a Roman.  Kaemon responds with a shot that kills one Sylvan but the other survives.  On OM3 the Blue Wyvern moves up with spiders.

    Round 3:
    Einar OM1, 2, 3:  10th Reg, OMX:  Kaemon
    Aquilla OM1, 3:  Sylvans  OM2, X:  Spiders
    Lots of tough OM decisions here.  Tawarthion has several options if the wants to Spirit Transfer and get a Whirlwind attack.  But I decide it is better to keep him back and allow the Forest Avenger bonus to make the Sylvans melee monsters.
    Einar wins initiative though and moves a pair of 10th to height with bayonets on Tawarthion.  The Primordial goes down (0/8 on shields against 3 skulls finishes him off).  On OM1 the now “weak” (normal) Sylvans get one lucky kill in against a 10th Reg (2 skulls to 0 shields).  On OM2 the 10th do a Wait then Fire and from Range 6 the two soldiers next to Marcus roll 5/8 skulls on the Blue Wyvern who rolls 0/10 shields even with height and he drops dead from the barrage.  Spiders get to go on OM2 but their main Wyvern is toast, so they move up from the back.  On OM3 the 10th Reg kill the three closest spiders.  The rout is on.

    Rounds 4 and 5 aren’t much to speak about.  The red Wyvern makes a play for Kaemon but doesn’t inflict a wound (but takes one in counter-strike).  Shots are fired all around and the Spiders are the main target trying to remove OM’s.  One spider remains and the Wyvern tries a disengage (unsuccessfully) to swoop Kaemon back towards more friendly figures and away from the 10th.  One spider inflicts another wound on Kaemon but the 10th destroy the Wyvern.
    By the end of round 5 only two Sylvans and one spider remain, and they last surprisingly long taking a few more with them (and even killing Kaemon – who also counter-struck a Sylvan).

    Game ends with Marcus Decimus with 3 Life, 3 Romans, and 6 10th Reg.
    ==

    I totally should have wimped out and Spirit Transferred Tawarthion back to the Start Zone - to keep the bonus going for Sylvans. It wasn't worth staying nearby to grab an unknown treasure. That strategic mistake made the rest of the game sort of pointless.

    It did show the vulnerability of the Forest Primordial, and also the lack of offensive punch for the Sylvans (they really are a defensive screen without their Forest leader).

    I see Tawarthion as a Risk/Reward. You really have to get him up into the fray so that he can take wounds - but then you need to hope he survives long enough to teleport him out of harms way so the Sylvans can maximize his Forest Avenger power to switch from defense to offense. Very hard to play and very difficult Order Marker Management.


    I really love the LOOK of this figure, but he's just not coming together the way that I want .. so I might withdraw him from Wave 2.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:33 am

    Kai wrote:
    I really love the LOOK of this figure, but he's just not coming together the way that I want .. so I might withdraw him from Wave 2.

    I really like the figure and the powers. I wouldn't mind running some play tests with him. I think we have plenty of time to flesh this figure out . . . please don't withdraw him. Sounds like the defense dice went cold at the wrong time.

    I like high risk/reward figures. Do you think he needs more staying power?
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    Derek S

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Derek S on Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:45 pm

    I too hope he isn't withdrawn and like the look of him.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:05 pm


    I'd like the "Primordials" to be a cool series of figures. This one just needs a little work .. so by withdraw I mean - put him on the shelf for a while to work on projects/figures that are gaining momentum.

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue May 06, 2014 2:43 am

    Brainstorming - place holder:

    Unit Name: Tawarthion

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Warrior
    Personality: Wild
    Size: Medium 6
    Points: 100
    Stats
    Life: 4
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4

    Special Powers
    LIFEBOUND
    At the start of the game, add 1 to Tawarthion's Life for every 3 jungle pieces and/or evergreen trees on the battlefield (to a maximum of +7 Life).

    WOODLAND FURY
    Once per round, after taking a turn with the Sylvan Animae, you may place a wound on Tawarthion to take another turn with the Sylvan Animae.

    SPIRIT TRANSFER
    Instead of moving normally, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Spirit Transfer. Choose a Wild Elementar you control. You may switch Tawarthion and the chosen figure. Figures moved by Spirit Transfer never take leaving engagement attacks. On the turn Tawarthion moves with Spirit Transfer he may attack any and all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.

    --

    For Lifebound, I looked at BoV Maps to see how much Life Tawarthion would receive as a bonus.  The average is 1.6, with the main tree maps adding + 3 Life.
    BoV Maps:

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue May 06, 2014 3:20 pm

    Continued brainstorming.  

    I'll have to play-test this one, but I like the "Summon" idea that I am stealing from Iskra and Rechets.  The Summoning is like a d20 based "bonding" so not as strong as just giving him straight bonding or movement bonding. But it will allow the Sylvans to 'appear' on the battlefield' and potentially provide that defensive boost and/or screen, and also a surprise attack.  d20 based powers can be tough to value so I made it a 50/50 chance but higher probability if there are trees nearby.

    Unit Name: Tawarthion

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Protector
    Personality: Wild
    Size: Medium 6
    Points: 100
    Stats
    Life: 5
    Move: 6
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4

    Special Powers
    PRIMORDIAL OF THE FOREST
    At the start of the game, you may place up to 3 squads of Sylvan Animae you control on this Army card.  These Sylvan Animae can only be placed on the battlefield with the Summon Sylvan Animae power.

    SUMMON SYLVAN ANIMAE
    After taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may attempt to summon a squad of Sylvan Animae.  Roll the 20-side die.  Add 1 to your roll for each tree or bush within 5 spaces of Tawarthion.  If you roll an 11 or higher, place 3 Sylvan Animae from this Army card on empty spaces either adjacent to Tawarthion or adjacent to a tree or bush within 5 spaces of Tawarthion.  When that squad of Sylvan Animae are summoned, you may immediately take a turn with those figures.  If those Sylvan Animae begin their turn engaged, add 1 to their attack value that turn.

    FORESTWALK
    Tawarthion may move through any tree or bush on the battlefield.



    --
    Variant Power:

    PRIMORDIAL OF THE FOREST
    At the start of the game, you may place up to 3 squads of Sylvan Animae you control on this Army card.  These Sylvan Animae can be placed on the battlefield with the Summon Sylvan Animae power, or after revealing an order marker on the Sylvan Animae, before taking a turn with them, you may place 1 Sylvan Animae from this card adjacent to Tawarthion.



    Last edited by Lord Kai on Wed May 07, 2014 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Nomad

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Nomad on Tue May 06, 2014 7:38 pm

    PRIMORDIAL OF THE FOREST?
    With the summoning the Sylvan, do those squads count against your point total in your army build?

    The following would need to be worded better, but what do you think of the idea?

    FORESTWALK
    Tawarthion may move through any tree or bush on the battlefield. If Tawarthion moves through a tree or bush he does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

    I'm not overly fond of
    LIFEBOUND

    I still like these powers:
    WOODLAND FURY
    SPIRIT TRANSFER
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue May 06, 2014 8:00 pm

    Nomad wrote:PRIMORDIAL OF THE FOREST?
    With the summoning the Sylvan, do those squads count against your point total in your army build?


    Yes, but I'll have to clarify that.  I thought the "you control" part implied that you had to pay for them but it might not be clear.


    FORESTWALK
    Tawarthion may move through any tree or bush on the battlefield. If Tawarthion moves through a tree or bush he does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

    Sounds good. I just used wording similar to Ghost Walk from Agent Carr but didn't think about leaving engagement attacks.


    I still like these powers:
    WOODLAND FURY
    SPIRIT TRANSFER

    Yeah, I really like Spirit Transfer but I thought it was too much for this version of Tawarthion.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Derek S on Wed May 07, 2014 7:10 am

    Just a thought here, but what about starting with X amount of jungle bushes on his card instead of Sylvan Animae. If Tawarthian can legally place a jungle bush after moving he gets to. Any Sylvan adjacent to the just placed jungle bush would then take a turn after Tawarthian is finished.

    And I too think Spirit Transfer is my favorite power that has been presented.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed May 07, 2014 1:56 pm

    I ran a play-test with these Powers:

    Spoiler:

    Special Powers
    PRIMORDIAL OF THE FOREST
    At the start of the game, you may place up to 3 squads of Sylvan Animae you control on this Army card.  These Sylvan Animae can only be placed on the battlefield with the Summon Sylvan Animae power.

    SUMMON SYLVAN ANIMAE
    After taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may attempt to summon a squad of Sylvan Animae.  Roll the 20-side die.  Add 1 to your roll for each tree or bush within 5 spaces of Tawarthion.  If you roll an 11 or higher, place 3 Sylvan Animae from this Army card on empty spaces either adjacent to Tawarthion or adjacent to a tree or bush within 5 spaces of Tawarthion.  When that squad of Sylvan Animae are summoned, you may immediately take a turn with those figures.  If those Sylvan Animae begin their turn engaged, add 1 to their attack value that turn.

    FORESTWALK
    Tawarthion may move through any tree or bush on the battlefield.


    The board was very forest-friendly (evergreen trees).  http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads///ec_tmp/Kais%20Mohican%20Forest%20of%20Shadows.pdf

    Armies:
    Tawarthion ... 100
    Sylvan Animae x4 ... 260
    Shadow Slayers x2 ... 500

    vs

    Dreadgull Raiders x3 ... 195
    Valguard ... 305
    Guilty McCreech ... 335
    10th Reg of Foot x2 ... 485
    Isamu ... 495


    Round 1
    I had 1 squad of Sylvans in the start zone to give the Shadow Slayers the +2 move for being 'hunters.'  Nothing like the 'Slayers rushing out with Move 8.  OM 1 & 2 were on Tawarthion so that I could make sure to get the 3 squads of Animae off my card and into the game.  On OM1 I rolled a 19, and on OM2 I rolled a 14, so I was able to drop two of the three squads onto the board in Round 1.  The first squad dropped was to position for defensive position and as speed 'gates' for the Shadow Slayers (that we set to go on OM3).  The second drop of Sylvans allowed the Sylvans to take some offensive steps against Dreadgulls and Valguard.  Poor Valguard whiffed on a 4/4 attack from a Sylvan on height and so he was down to 3 life really fast.  And now he was engaged with Tawarthion and a Sylvan so he wasn't going anywhere.  The 10th Reg moved up to take some shots and the Shadow Slayers zipped up to the next group of Sylvans to get a ranged defense boost and to be in position for another +2 move if I needed to lunge.

    Round 2
    Tawarthion used OM1 and rolled a 17 to get the last squad of Sylvans off his card and onto the battlefield.  With their temporary attack bonus they did put two more Wounds on Valguard and take out a Dreadgull.  The remaining two OM's were on Shadow Slayers but despite Valguard just having one life, he held on through the entire Round.  Slayers weren't having much luck, and Wait-then-Fire from the 10th was starting to cut down Sylvans and Slayers.  Then a bayonet charge helped to take out a full squad of Slayers, limiting the offensive power of Aquilla.

    Round 3
    The 10th were thinned out to just one squad, but the Slayers were not generating enough offense.  Wait-then-Fire is just awesome and the remaining squad of 10th Reg picked off the Slayers and then they fired away at Sylvans.  Despite adding 1 to the ranged defense of each other the Sylvans were not fairing well 3-4 attack dice against 4-5 defense.

    Round 4
    Tawarthion and 2 squads of Sylvans were facing 1 squad of 10th, Guilty, and 2 squads of Dreadgulls (and Isamu).  Sylvans got lucky to take out a squad of Raiders but they were just a screen to keep the 10th on height with Wait-then-Fire.  By the end of the round it was Tawarthion with 2 life remaining and 2 Sylvans for Aquilla .. and it wasn't looking good.

    Round 5
    Tawarthion did some hit-and-run but it was only a matter of time before Einar was victorious.

    ..

    It was great to have the Sylvans moved up and into defensive positions early on in the game, so the 'summoning' worked.  But defense doesn't tend to win Heroscape games, which is probably part of the struggle with helping the Sylvans - they just aren't an offensive threat.

    Tawarthion was fine on Round 1 and 2 but he suffered from the normal problem that Iskra has -- once you drop the Rechets, you aren't investing OM's in her any more until their dead.  So Tawarthion had the benefit of getting a turn and then a turn with Sylvans .. but after 3 OM's (for the three squads of Sylvans) - he sort of sat around while the Shadow Slayers were on offense.

    Tawarthion & the Sylvans would have been much better with 4 squads of Marro Stingers instead of 2 squads of Shadow Slayers ... but Stingers can be boring and I wanted an all Aquilla theme.

    ..

    Derek, your idea of having Tawarthion drop jungle bushes instead of Sylvans is cool, but I worried that there will not be as many legal positions to place the jungle bushes.  Also the Sylvans are supposed to be mobile trees anyway, but opponent's do not receive defensive bonuses for being adjacent to a Sylvan but they would for a jungle bush.

    ..
    With the way that Tawarthion played (granted it was only one game), and with the nature of the Sylvan Animae to be defensive, I was considering dropping him to 60-points and reducing his stats to make him more like Iskra.  This would mean his role on the battlefield was to bring in the Sylvan Animae to set up a defensive perimeter (a mix of melee screen and cover).  Potential new stats:  to 4 Life, 5 Move, 3 Attack, 3 Defense with the same basic powers.

          Army Builds:  Tawarthion (60) + Sylvan Animae x2 (80) = 140 Points.  That leaves more space for "offense."



    Another power idea:

    WILDGROWTH
    All evergreen trees within 6 clear sight spaces of Tawarthion are considered jungle pieces.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri May 09, 2014 11:29 pm

    More brainstorming ... posting here to record ideas.

    Unit Name: Tawarthion

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Protector
    Personality: Wild
    Size: Medium 6
    Points: 140
    Stats
    Life: 6
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4

    Special Powers
    WOODLAND COMMANDER
    Before taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may take a turn with a squad of Sylvan Animae you control.

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent’s figures that are adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 1 from their defense. When an opponent's small or medium figure starts their turn adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 2 from their move value.

    SPIRIT TRANSFER
    Instead of moving normally, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Spirit Transfer. Choose a Sylvan Animae you control. You may switch Tawarthion and the chosen figure. Figures moved by Spirit Transfer never take leaving engagement attacks. On the turn Tawarthion moves with Spirit Transfer he may attack any and all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Derek S on Mon May 12, 2014 9:22 am

    I am not a fan of going back and making changes to what we have already released, but if the Sylvan Animae were Tricky instead of Wild, or Sentinels instead of Guards the Woodland Commander power could read something like

    Before taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may take a turn with a squad of Tricky Guards or Sentinels (Wild or Tricky Sentinels) you control.

    or if things were left the same

    Before taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may take a turn with 1 Sylvan Animae squad (or 1 Eilan Sidhe squad [if wanted that included]).

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent’s figures that are adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 1 from their defense. When an opponent's small or medium figure starts their turn adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 2 from their move value.

    Really like the hindrance to move here. With the subtract 1 from their defense part, they would get the bonus per the wording of the Jungle Terrain, then lose the bonus per the wording on Tawarthion. I wouldn't mind dropping this part and just leave the hindrance to movement. Maybe something like

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent's figures that start their movement adjacent to a jungle tree or bush must roll the 20-sided die before moving. If they roll 1-5 they take a wound and cannot move this turn. If they roll a 6 or higher nothing happens.

    Glad to see Spirit Transfer back in there. I think this is my favorite version yet.

    If the current powers make Tawarthion cost more than you like I could see dropping the Woodland Commander power and adding Sylvan Animae to Forest Animation.

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent's figures that start their movement adjacent to a jungle tree, jungle bush, or Sylvan Animae must roll the 20-sided die before moving. If they roll 1-5 they take a wound and cannot move this turn. If they roll a 6 or higher nothing happens.

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon May 12, 2014 6:22 pm


    One of my goals with Forest Animation is to give the Sylvan Animae a better offensive "punch" since they only have Attack 2. By reducing the targets defense, the Sylvans can get into the melee. Also, if you are playing with a small number of Sylvan's and Tawarthion, you are also providing a boost for your other troops ... but with the dependency on a board with a lot of trees.

    I thought about including the Sylvans "as trees" too - but worried that was too powerful - basically making all figures they engaged -1 Defense if Tawarthion had Line of Sight.

    The d20 based move restriction is a nice option but the low probability makes it less attractive. Since your opponent is going to avoid getting close to trees anyway, I'd like it to be consistent.


    I wouldn't mind including something to give the Eilan Sidhe synergy with Tawartion as well. Nomad was concerned that if the card had options for the same sculpt/figures that it could get confusing. I was think that we could have two versions of the card ... one for bonding with Sylvans and one for bonding with Eilan Sidhe. Should just be a matter of changing the squad name.

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    Nomad

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Nomad on Sun May 18, 2014 11:54 am

    I really like where this figure is at with the latest powers. He sounds really fun. My thoughts are in red. I don't have a problem with putting both the Animae and the Sidhe on the same card and would prefer that over doing two different cards. If someone chooses to play with both the Animae and Sidhe then they will have to find a way to differentiate between them with rubber bands, markers on the base, etc. Just my two cents . . . Kai, I'm ready to start play testing if you think we are ready.

    Tawarthion

    General: Aquilla
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Protector
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 6

    Life: 6
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4
    140 Points

    WOODLAND COMMANDER
    Before taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may take a turn with one squad of Sylvan Animae or one squad of Eilan Sidhe that you control.

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent’s figures that are adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 1 from their defense. When an opponent's small or medium figure starts their turn adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 2 from their move value.

    SPIRIT TRANSFER
    Instead of moving normally, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Spirit Transfer. Choose a Sylvan Animae or Eilan Sidhe that you control. You may switch Tawarthion and the chosen figure. Figures moved by Spirit Transfer never take leaving engagement attacks. On the turn Tawarthion moves with Spirit Transfer he may attack any and all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun May 18, 2014 7:11 pm

    Nomad wrote:I really like where this figure is at with the latest powers. He sounds really fun. My thoughts are in red. I don't have a problem with putting both the Animae and the Sidhe on the same card and would prefer that over doing two different cards. If someone chooses to play with both the Animae and Sidhe then they will have to find a way to differentiate between them with rubber bands, markers on the base, etc. Just my two cents . . . Kai, I'm ready to start play testing if you think we are ready.

    Tawarthion
    Spoiler:


    General: Aquilla
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Protector
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 6

    Life: 6
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4
    140 Points

    WOODLAND COMMANDER
    Before taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may take a turn with one squad of Sylvan Animae or one squad of Eilan Sidhe that you control.

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent’s figures that are adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 1 from their defense. When an opponent's small or medium figure starts their turn adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 2 from their move value.

    SPIRIT TRANSFER
    Instead of moving normally, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Spirit Transfer. Choose a Sylvan Animae or Eilan Sidhe that you control. You may switch Tawarthion and the chosen figure. Figures moved by Spirit Transfer never take leaving engagement attacks. On the turn Tawarthion moves with Spirit Transfer he may attack any and all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.

    Sounds great. Be great to get some play-testing rolling. I think 140 might be too high - but that's what play-testing is for : )
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    Nomad

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 pm

    Kai, can you update the OP to reflect the latest? And rename the thread "W3 Tawarthion - Playtesting"? Thanks!

    TAWARTHION

    General: Aquilla
    Planet: Feylund

    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Protector
    Personality: Wild
    Medium 6

    Life: 6
    Move: 5
    Range: 1
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4
    140 Points

    WOODLAND COMMANDER
    Before taking a turn with Tawarthion, you may take a turn with one squad of Sylvan Animae or one squad of Eilan Sidhe that you control.

    FOREST ANIMATION
    All opponent’s figures that are adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 1 from their defense. When an opponent's small or medium figure starts their turn adjacent to at least one tree or bush that is within clear sight of Tawarthion subtract 2 from their move value.

    SPIRIT TRANSFER
    Instead of moving normally, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Spirit Transfer. Choose a Sylvan Animae or Eilan Sidhe that you control. You may switch Tawarthion and the chosen figure. Figures moved by Spirit Transfer never take leaving engagement attacks. On the turn Tawarthion moves with Spirit Transfer he may attack any and all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:46 pm

    I renamed the thread but I'd like to play-test this version before I change the OP. I personally like to see the iterations that came before (and this guy has a lot of them). I can sneak in some testing soon.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:17 pm

    Thanks for updating the thread title.

    Oops - I thought your last post for stats and powers was where we were at. I will wait to play test until things are firmed up. In my opinion, I thought it was good to go to play testing based on your last list of stats/powers. I love Forest Animation and Spirit Transfer!
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W3 Tawarthion - (Forest Primordial) - released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:41 am

    So I got in a playtest with the elusive Forest Primordial.

    Tawarthion … 140
    Sylvan Animae x3 … 260
    M-43 Resistance x4 … 520

    versus

    Su-Bak-Na … 160
    Nagrubs x3 … 250
    Stingers x3 … 430
    Ne-Gok-Sa … 520

    Map:  Fulcrum (modified)
    http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//fulcrum_mB5.jpg

    Since Tawarthion’s main goal is to make the Sylvan Animae a little more competitive, I chose to pair the Primordial and Animae with ranged units.  In this mode, Tawarthion is acting in a supporting role to bring up a screen to boost defense against ranged attacks.  For a “General Wars” format, I went with M-43 Resistance Fighters.  My thought was get the M-43 to some extra cover and while they are blasting away with Guerrilla Tactics to move more units up to cover.  On the right map, Tawarthion can also use Forest Animation to reduce movement and defense for opponent’s units that are adjacent to trees.

    I went with Marro Stingers to start for a real test and threw in Su-Bak-Na because I haven’t fielded him (it) in a while.  

    The game started strong for Aquilla, with the Sylvans fanning out on OM1 to provide additional defense for the M-43.  The Resistance moved up and starting firing away at advancing Marro Stingers.  Tawarthion was in the middle of the board with jungle tree cover.  It took me an OM or two to remember not to move the Stingers adjacent to a jungle bush for cover {though it balanced out since they received +1 defense and then Tawarthion reduced defense by 1}.

    Stingers moved up for OM1-2 and then Su-Bak-Na took position for a lunge on Round 2 against Tawarthion.   Su-Bak-Na rolled 1/7 on the attack against Tawarthion, and then on his turn, T’war Spirit Transferred to get out of the fight and whirlwind attack a Nagrub and a Stinger (though no wounds inflicted).  The Stingers then dropped 5 wounds on Tawarthion (who blanked on defense rolls).  The M-43 were getting in good shots against Stingers and thinned out their ranks.  The Stingers were firing back, rolling for Drain every time and getting height + drain most of the time with M-43 benefiting from Sylvan + Jungle for 5 defense.

    About mid-way through the game, the Stingers took out Tawarthion (who did not earn half of his points).  As the game progressed, the Stingers were just so much better than the Resistance Fighters.  Rolling 2 attack for M-43 against 3-4 defense for Stingers meant that the attrition from laser-on-laser was going to the Marro.  Su-Bak-Na took 3 wounds in the game and earned his points but the Nagrubs did not.  The Sylvans were responsible for the death of a few ‘Grubs and two wounds on Su-Bak-Na but they are such a defensive unit – that I don’t expect that they’ll earn their points often.  In this game, they were a high-priced screen for the M-43, and at 120-points – Raelin would have been better (though she’s ridiculous).

    End Game:  Su-Bak-Na with 2 Life, full Life Ne-Gok-Sa, 1 Stinger, 3 Nagrubs remaining

    Notes:  Tawarthion was effective in this game because the board favored his “Forest Animation” power.  He would have been better if he would have actually made some defense rolls.  In the ‘cheerleader’ defensive roll, he is not going to earn his points, which could be a problem since he is 10-points less than Cyprien.

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