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    W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:51 pm

    This looks really good to me. I made a wording suggestion for the last power. The first power looks perfect to me.

    Unit Name: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER
    Planet: Na'Bora

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Saar
    Type: Uncommon Hero
    Class: Scout
    Personality: Precise
    Size: Medium 5

    Points: 40

    Stats
    Life = 3
    Range = 8
    Move = 5
    Attack = 2
    Defense = 3

    Special Powers
    RECONNAISSANCE COORDINATION
    Before a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Na'bora Saar Sniper you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure. When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die against an opponent's figure that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a Na'bora Saar Sniper you control, add 1 to your roll.

    SNIPER TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Na'bora Saar Sniper, if this Na'bora Saar Sniper did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.

    I reworded the last power to be similar to Deathcommader's Command Beacon power.

    I looked at a slew of figures in the 40 point range . . . I'm thinking that this sniper will end up costing a more than 40. With the synergy, boosts, and potential double attacks two of them seem better than Sylvarris. I do like the benefit offered to scouts and snipers. I will look for a decent B/B+ army to play-test them against. Doing a playtest against the Wolf Pack might not be telling . . . I think they will end up being an A+ army. I wouldn't worry about making every figure we create super exciting. I like what these guys offer.

    Nice work!
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:15 pm


    Cool. Thanks for the word-smithing.

    Yeah, these guys are probably in the 50-60 point range as written today (closer to Shiori or Sam Brown). I was thinking of beefing them up a bit and making the figure a Unique Hero.

    The other direction is Common Heroes, probably in the 30 point range (same stats just 1 Life).

    Needs some work.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:55 pm

    I actually like the look at what these guys were going to offer. With their boosts and bonding I think an uncommon hero is the better option than a common hero. I think getting every character exciting will be difficult, sometimes a good solid unit is just as fun/good in the long run.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:18 am



    So I ran this guy again, but bumped him to 60-points.

    Mohican River Tribe x3 ... 210
    Brave Arrow ... 50
    Kira Jax ... 30
    Isamu ... 10
    Zetacron ... 60
    Na'bora Saar Sniper x2 ... 120

    versus

    Marcus Decimus
    Roman Legion x2
    10th Regiment x3
    Martial LaHire

    I got some incredibly lucky shots on Marcus - one 4 skull attack from a Na'bora Saar, then tried to follow with Zetacron. Didn't get Marcus then, but risked my OM1 to try and take him out and it worked. This slowed the 10th Reg and remaining Romans.

    The Na'bora Snipers were pretty awesome, and they can get the Mohicans up to 4 attack at Range 6 .. Height + Recon bonus. I did have a chance for a 4 dice Deadly Shot from Zetacron but I only rolled 1 skull. It vaporized a 10th Reg soldier though : )

    It sort of turned into a route, though there was some resistance. Ended with full Life Zetacron, Kira Jax, and Isamu, plus a single Mohican Tribesman (so a little over 100 points remaining).

    Sylvarris is obviously better than Zetacron with the 2 attacks, but it worked out well.

    I think the Saar Snipers - since they can boost each other - can be pretty effective against Heroes. When I had Height and they were within 6 of each other - they were throwing 2 attacks of 4 at a Hero. I think this justifies their bump to 60 points.

    I'm okay with the Mohicans getting a possible bump to 4 attack (base + height + recon), but it might be a little much for Zetacron. Maybe to bring the points down I limit it to Aquilla Scouts or Snipers. This way - Kira Jax gets some lovin' and Zetacron does become Double-Deadly Strike.

    I was also considering having the Recon add 1 to the d20 roll for Concealment to help the Mohicans. They just suck so bad at Defense. It brings their Concealment down to a base 18 minus the difference in range. Is that too much?





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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:52 am

    Kai wrote:
    I'm okay with the Mohicans getting a possible bump to 4 attack (base + height + recon), but it might be a little much for Zetacron. Maybe to bring the points down I limit it to Aquilla Scouts or Snipers. This way - Kira Jax gets some lovin' and Zetacron does become Double-Deadly Strike.
    Yes, this would certainly drop their points a bit. So, no Zetcron. And Dead-eye wouldn't get the 20-sided bonus?

    Kai wrote:I was also considering having the Recon add 1 to the d20 roll for Concealment to help the Mohicans. They just suck so bad at Defense. It brings their Concealment down to a base 18 minus the difference in range. Is that too much?
    I don't think that is too much, in fact I like it. It would also benefit the Fyorlag Spiders and their Entangling Web power.

    So, the powers would read:

    RECONNAISSANCE COORDINATION
    When an Aquilla Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Na'bora Saar Sniper you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure. When an Aquilla Scout or Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die against an opponent's figure that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a Na'bora Saar Sniper you control, add 1 to your roll.

    SNIPER TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Na'bora Saar Sniper, if this Na'bora Saar Sniper did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control. Would this stay the same?

    I'm thinking of giving them a playtest in the next few days and I want to make sure I'm testing them right.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:17 am

    Bump.

    Kai, I would like to give this a play-test. Can you let me know the wording on the powers you want me to test out?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:51 am

    Why don't you try them for "all" Ranged Scouts?  Let's see how broken they might be with Deadeye or Zetacron. But basically you're playing the Mohicans and deciding on what figures to support them with.


    Unit Name: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER
    Planet: Na'Bora

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Saar
    Type: Uncommon Hero
    Class: Scout
    Personality: Precise
    Size: Medium 5

    Points: 40

    Stats
    Life = 3
    Range = 8
    Move = 5
    Attack = 2
    Defense = 3

    Special Powers
    RECONNAISSANCE COORDINATION
    Before a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Na'bora Saar Sniper you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure. When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die against an opponent's figure that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a Na'bora Saar Sniper you control, add 1 to your roll.

    SNIPER TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Na'bora Saar Sniper, if this Na'bora Saar Sniper did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:14 am

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER

    THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects. OK here, attacks should affect destructible objects.

    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play? Pretty fun. They provided boost and bonding options through the first few rounds, until I let them die. But, they did get Zetacron out of the start zone and to height early.

    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying? Hmm . . . early on, yes because they rolled through Stingers. Later, Tor-Kul-Na took care of them. Annoying? Not so much.

    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable? All powers are usable and were used.

    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game? For this lowly used bunch of misfits, yes, great strategy alternatives and potentialities. I would do things very differently in my next play test. It also caused my opponent to rethink how to pursue this uncommon hero and army.

    BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately? No bonding loops. All is good here.

    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak? Hmm . . . more playtesting is needed. I thought I would walk through the park on this one . . . but it was a close battle. I think I might try NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER x12 in my next playtest to see if it works. Wouldn't be fun, but it is an option. Maybe NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER x7, Zetacron, and a few squads of Mohicans. Hmm . . . we have lot's to play-test here to figure out if this figure works.

    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? I don't think these guys will break the game, but given their options for benefits and that I can field a bunch of them . . . I'm thinking they are underpriced at 40 per. I think that if it were a unique hero, 40 points would be about right. Just theoryscaping right now . . . we need to do many more playtests to see if NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER is viable as is in the previous post.

    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting? Often. Even as a 40 point filler this is the best unit I can think of - range of 8, 3 lives with 3 def, despite the bonding option.

    MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game? No

    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. [insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary] Yes, they perfomed adequatly. 40 points seem way too low in my opinion . . . but, honestly, I was surprised. I thought I would walk through the opponent and it looked like it early . . . but I mis-strategized and got all 3 NA'BORA SAAR SNIPERs killed. Then it was a battle to the end. I think I will play them better next time and then who knows. I need to do more play tests and do more NA'BORA SAAR SNIPERs in my army. So, I cannot insert a pass/fail yet.

    Map: Sirocco

    Units:

    Army 1: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER x3, Mohicans x3, Kira Jax, Zetacron, Dead-eye Dan, Isamu = 490 points

    VS

    Army 2: Tor-Kul-Na, Stingers x3, Nagrubs x3 = 490 points

    Rd 1. All three OMs go on the NSS, one on each. NSS moves and so does Zeta. Stingers flank left and right. A NSS kills a Stinger from long range (no bonding). Three Stingers fire on Zeta and roll 3/3, 2/4, and 2/4 . . . but Zeta defends against them all! A NSS kills another Stinger (no bonding). Stingers attack the NSS and get one wound on the NSS on left side of the map but the other 2 defend.

    Rd 2. Mohicans move up with Stingers in sight of NSS and roll 8/9 skulls, but only kill 1 Stinger. Great rolls going on for both armies. Stingers attack, but can only get 1 more wound on the left NSS. Mohicans kill 3 more Stingers, two were engaged. Three Stingers move to height and no one is range. [Is this a wipe out or what?] Mohican grabs the Initiative +8 glyph while two other move out from the start zone. Stingers move to the right side and kill a NSS in 2 attacks.

    Rd 3. A NSS attack Tork from long range, no wounds while Zeta kills a Stinger clear across the map. A Stinger engages Zeta while another skirts by to grab the Def+1 glyph - no wounds on Zeta. NSS attacks Tork again but fails, Zeta kills a Stinger. Tork charges and places a wound on the middle NSS, Grubs fail in 2 attacks. [OK, two OMs into this round and NSS's and team have killed 140 points of Stingers while only losing 53 points in NSS - this will be a cake walk]. Mohicans roll 1/10 skulls in three attacks - no wounds. OUCH! Tork tramples a NSS for a wound and then kills him with an attack, 2 Grubs fail in their attacks.

    Rd 4. Marro team wins initiative despite the +8 Initiative glyph - this was a huge turning point. Tork kills the last NSS while a Grub kills the Mohican on the initiative glyph. Mohicans can only kill one Grub in 3 attacks, while the last of the Stingers continues to hold the def+1 glyph. The Mohicans retreat to the right side and finally kill the last of the Stingers and a Grub. Tork moves to height on the left side and then a Grub kills another Mohican. The Mohicans take the def+1 glyph to the left of the map and kill 2 Grubs.

    Rd 5. Tork tramples down the hill to take out Dan in one attack into the opponents startzone while a Grub kills another Mohican. OM#1 was on Dan - another oops. Tork tramples Kira for 1 wound and then finishes her off with an attack while the Grubs fail in their attacks. 2 more Mohicans run from Tork and kill 2 Grubs. Tork tramples Isamu dead while the Grubs still can't kill the Mohican on def+1.

    Rd 6. Tork charges to the right side hill. Zetacron blasts on Tork from height and gets 3 wounds on the monster. Tork keeps charging up and gets 3 skulls on a Mohican, but it is blocked with a roll of 3/4 shields. Three Mohicans engage Tork in hand-to-hand combat and get two more wounds (Tork is down to one life left). Tork tramples one Mohican and kills another with his attack. Zetacron for the game . . . he only needs one wound . . . Zeta has height on Tork . . . and he rolls 0/3 skulls. OUCH!

    Rd 7. Tork charges up and wounds Zeta. A grub kills the Mohican on def+1. The Last of the Mohicans rolls a perfect 3/3 skulls on Tor-Kul-Na . . . but Tork rolls 3/5 shields to stay alive. OUCH! Tork snacks on a Grub and kills Zeta, who whiffed in defense. OM was on Zeta. Tork then rolls 5/7 skulls to take out the Last of the Mohicans and bring yet another victory into the hands of the test army. OUCH - I haven't won yet.

    Final thoughts: Team Tor-Kul-Na only had 85 points left in this one. It could've gone either way at numerous points in the battle. I am learning how the NSS work best and will venture a rematch - dropping a couple of heroes and going with more NSS and/or Mohicans. I misplayed the NSS this game - they are an interesting twist to the game (when do you bring them up to get other's bonus for attacks, when do you keep them safe?). I am more intrigued with how they played more than I would've ever thought with their benefits to proverbial Heroscape slackers. All that being said, their numbers suggest much more than 40 points. I will retest them as written in the previous post and I guarantee a wipeout!
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:43 am


    Yeah, they are probably better priced at 55 to 60 points.

    Thanks for the play-test.

    In my play-test, I went with at least 3 squads of Mohicans - since they are the main unit that the NSS is trying to boost. Playing with x12 NSS would be hilarious though painful for OM management.

    They are interesting to play in the first 1 - 2 rounds. They can set up the Mohicans who should be staying back (a) to attack from Range with the + 1 bonus and (b) to maximize their Concealment power. I did have a tendency to stop dropping OM's on the NSS after they were in position. I sort of stranded them out there - hoped they would survive and the Mohicans would pick off any threats - and then if they were alive, bring up Kira or Zeta.


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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:30 pm

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER

    THEME TEST: Same as previous battle.

    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play? Very fun for me this match . . . almost too fun.

    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying? Questionable - by getting Zetacron into the action in the second round, he was able to put some big wounds on Tor-Kul-Na from long range.

    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable? Yes. But something I missed in the first battle, is since the NSS are scouts . . . they boost in each other for +1 attack. I was also able to set up some cool cascading effects with the Mohicans this game.

    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game? I moved out the Mohicans a little earlier to provide a threat/cover in this battle. The NSS didn't take the brunt of the Stinger attacks at the start. Getting the NSS into spots with height gave bonuses to a huge swath of the board - with 4 of the spread out, just about any where on the board my Mohicans and Zeta attacked, they were getting a bonus die.

    BONDING TEST: Same as previous battle.

    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak? More play testing is still needed. At 40 points, I think they are broken. As Scouts, they give the +1 attack to each other, which is quite powerful.

    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Points need to be bumped.

    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting? Often, especially at the low price. I would take 2 of these over Syvarris in a heart beat.

    MIRROR TEST: Same as previous battle.

    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. [insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary] FAIL. The NSS preformed amazingly well, especially in their boosts to Mohicans and Zeta. I would suggest 60 points.

    Map: Sirocco

    Units:

    Army 1: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER x4, Mohicans x4, Zetacron = 500 points

    VS

    Army 2: Tor-Kul-Na, Stingers x3, Nagrubs x3, Isamu = 500 points

    Rd 1. Stingers flank to height and the Mohicans and 2 NSS do the same. Two Stingers die and the left NSS gets two wounds.

    Rd 2. Stingers keep firing away and moving to height on each side of the board. Mohicans and NSS (with Zeta) fight back. At the end of the round, Zeta rolled 3/3 for 6 hits on Tor-Kul-Na . . . Tork took 5 wounds and hadn't even moved yet. Three Stingers and 1 Mohican died. Two wounds were placed on the right NSS.

    Rd 3. Team NSS won initiative for the only time in the game . . . an NSS moved up to within 6 spaces of Tork, missed his attack. But this meant Zeta rolled 4 dice on the big fella for 2 skull/4 hits. Tork died. By the end of the round, the slaughter was on. 2 Grubs, 2 Stingers, 2 Mohicans, and the left NSS all died.

    Rd 4. Mohicans stood tall this round with the right NSS holding the defense glyph. Another Stinger and 2 more Grubs kicked the bucket while the right-center NSS earned 2 wounds.

    Rd 5. All Mohican OMs. The last Stinger managed to knock off the right NSS on the glyph, but the Mohicans took no other damage. At the end of the round Team Tork only had 2 grubs and Isamu left.

    Rd 6. After 1 Mohican died and 5 vanishes from Isamu, the game finally ended.

    The Scouts Team had 300 points left.

    Final thoughts: My prediction of a wipe-out held true. Stats and bonuses are NSS are too good for 40 points.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:19 pm


    Yeah the concern of giving Zetacron + 2 attack (height + Recon Bonus) with Deadly Strike is a little powerful. Is this a case to make it only Aquilla scouts? or maybe Small/Medium so that Dead-Eye can still get a boost?

    Is it broken with the Mohicans too? They can go from 2 Attack to 3 attack with Recon Bonus, and 4 attack with Height. This was a suggestion from SoV:

    Spoiler:

    RECONNAISSANCE COORDINATION
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure that is within 6 clear sight space of an unengaged Na'bora Saar Sniper you control, this Scout is considered having height advantage on its target for this attack.

    - It is simpler (less wordy)
    - It avoids stacking
    - it only boosts if you don't currently have height advantage on your target. If you have height advantage, you probably have a good view on the target already. It avoids the dreadfull Zetacron's attack with 4 dice (2 base + 1 from height + 1 from your power) at range 8.
    - It is powerfull, granting you +1 attack while deprieving your opponent +1 defense. It would help scouts busting "perchs" position

    And yes, they do boost each other. That was one of the ideas of Crossfire .. that two snipers within 6 of each other could really take down a single target (probably a hero since one can attack and wound but not destroy the hero and the 2nd Sniper finishes them off). This is one of the reason the NSS are "Scouts" but also Brave Arrow can give them a +1 boost if they attack adjacent.

    For points - you had 160 points invested in 4 NSS. If they were 50 points each then you would have had 3 NSS instead. Was 4 that much better than 3?

    But yeah, 60 points is probably right - since they are a little better than Samuel Brown for Range but have lower life and attack. They do bond, so you need to invest more points in them than Sam Brown.

    I like the Uncommon Hero concept but would it be better if it was a Unique Hero?
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:45 am

    Kai wrote:Is this a case to make it only Aquilla scouts? or maybe Small/Medium so that Dead-Eye can still get a boost?
    We could make it Aquilla scouts. Even if you go small/med I think that Dead-Eye would be left out. Add another squad of Mohicans and drop 10 points somewhere else.

    The SoV idea is interesting. It could lower their points by 10 plus. We would need to play test to see how it affects.

    Kai wrote:And yes, they do boost each other.
    Yes - I knew that they did, but in the first game I saw Sniper in their title and assumed they were Snipers. It wasn't until the second game that I realized that these Snipers weren't really Snipers, but Scouts.

    Kai wrote:For points - you had 160 points invested in 4 NSS. If they were 50 points each then you would have had 3 NSS instead. Was 4 that much better than 3?
    Well, I had 1 that didn't move still sitting in the start zone that didn't get to play at all. It may have made a difference in one order marker placement toward the end game if it were tight. But not much difference at all.

    Kai wrote:But yeah, 60 points is probably right - since they are a little better than Samuel Brown for Range but have lower life and attack. They do bond, so you need to invest more points in them than Sam Brown.

    I like the Uncommon Hero concept but would it be better if it was a Unique Hero?
    Yes, they do bond . . . and they are uncommon. That alone would add 10 points + over Samuel Brown because you can have multiples that bond with each other. I think as a Unique as written he would be at 50 or so. Maybe if we dropped his range/move/aura for +1 attack numbers as uncommon it might drop his points a little. By the way, his +1 20-sider never helped in about 8 opportunities that it could have for concealment.

    This is a great design and a great concept for booster the Mohicans, with a Cat-Man, who would've thought . . . We just need to get the points right for their stats/powers or adjust the stats/powers to get the points where we want them. I wish there was some way to encourage the use of Brave Arrow in this build . . . but maybe not with Cat-Men.

    Peace
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:14 am

    I ran another play-test tonight and yeah ... these guys are under-costed.  They make Zetacron super-deadly. If the big 'borg gets Height + a Saar Sniper - a 4-dice Deadly Strike is extremely wicked : )

    I'm going with 55-points, and the following stats:

    Unit Name: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER
    Planet: Na'Bora

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Saar
    Type: Uncommon Hero
    Class: Scout
    Personality: Precise
    Size: Medium 5

    Points: 55

    Stats
    Life = 3
    Range = 8
    Move = 5
    Attack = 2
    Defense = 3

    Special Powers
    RECONNAISSANCE COORDINATION
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is an unengaged Na'bora Saar Sniper you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control, that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Na'bora Saar Sniper, rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll.

    SNIPER TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Na'bora Saar Sniper, if this Na'bora Saar Sniper did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.

    ==

    Army Ideas:

    Mohican River Tribe x 3 .... 210
    Brave Arrow ... 50
    Zetacron ... 60
    Na'bora Saar Sniper x 2 ... 110
    = 430 points

    Leaves 70 points for a 500 point Army.

    Could add ..

    a)
    Kira Jax ... 30
    Siiv ... 40


    b)
    a 4th Squad of Mohicans ... 70

    c)
    Deadeye Dan ... 60
    Isamu ... 10

    d)
    Saar Sniper ... 55 (making it 3 Snipers)
    Isamu ... 10
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:26 am

    Besides the point bump to 55 and rewording of the Recon power, nothing else changed, correct? I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

    55 points should work, but I could still see this figure at 60-65. More play-tests?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:25 pm

    Right, just some minor re-wording and a bump in points.

    I think the most 'broken' thing about their Scout boost is the Zetacron issue. He can really get obnoxious with 4 attack & Deadly Strike : ) It could be limited to small or medium Scouts.

    I ran another playtest this morning that was sort of a rout.


    Mohican River Tribe x 3
    Brave Arrow
    Kira Jax
    Zetacron
    Na'bora Saar Sniper x 3 (priced at 55-points for this playtest)
    = 515 points

    versus

    Minions of Utgar x 3
    Atlaga
    Ne-Gok-Sa
    = 510 points


    I was certainly rolling *horrible* defense for the Minions .. though 6 defense doesn't often hold up against 3 attack. Both games were surprising blow-outs for the Mohicans. I did not pull off any Bolts of Witherwood or Mindshackles. The Minions had an Attack Glyph in Game 1 that helped, but then their first wave fell quickly to ranged shots. The Na'bora Saar Snipers were easy to get into position (typically fanning out with OM1) and then the Mohicans move up. Brave Arrow saw limited action.

    The Minions were good at snatching the high-ground with flying versus Mohicans on the road. There were only a few times when a Mohican had Height + Recon bonus for 4 attack {I was playing on Highways and DieWays}.

    I could see the Na'bora Saar going up to 60-65 points for sure. With 3 Life and 3 defense they can hold out against a few squad attacks. I like the balance of their bonus not applying if they are engaged. They are really good at boosting each other for taking down Heroes. In Game 2 they benefited from a Unique Attack Glyph so I had OM's going between different Snipers for attacks of 4 (2 + Glyph + Recon) and that really helped against a few Minions (and for shots on Ne-Gok-Sa).

    Their main goal of course is to boost the Mohicans, which they do quite well. At the high end - 65 points - you are deciding between another squad of Mohicans and a Saar Sniper.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:17 pm

    Really liking where this is heading. One thing I still can't get is if they are a sniper how are they a scout? I like the idea of them coming from Siiv's planet as well. If you are looking to keep their points down a little would making them 2 life be worth a5-10 point drop?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:43 pm

    Dropping down to 2 Life might be best to keep their points down.

    I can change the Sniper names around. Make the Na'bora Saar a "Scout" and change Sniper Team Bonding to Recon Team Bonding or something like that.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:38 pm

    The Sniper in the title and the Scout as a class can be confusing - I missed it the first couple of playtests but once I knew, it wasn't a problem.

    Still, I like the idea of having the name be NA'BORA SAAR SCOUT and renaming the power as RECONNAISSANCE TEAM BONDING.

    Dropping the life to 2 would keep the points down to the 40-45 point range.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:20 pm

    The only reason I thought of bringing their points down a little was because of choosing 1 Nabora or 1 squad of Mohicans. Most of the time your going to choose the squad. So I was thinking separating their points a little more might be worth looking into. I am good either way.

    I really think the name should fit the class (I realize they are kind of crossovers- but I couldn't Imagine Zetcron the Sniper being classed as a scout). I like the change to Na'bora Saar Scout and Reconnaissance Bonding.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:42 pm

    bump
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:37 am

    Okay, I think the stats and play-ability are solid .. just need to tweak the names.


    Unit Name: (SAAR)    WHISPER SCOUT

    General: Aquilla
    Species: Saar
    Type: Uncommon Hero
    Class: Scout
    Personality: Precise
    Size: Medium 5

    Points: 55

    Stats
    Life = 3
    Range = 8
    Move = 5
    Attack = 2
    Defense = 3

    Special Powers
    ADVANCED SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Whisper Scout you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Whisper Scout.

    RECON TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Whisper Scout, if this Whisper Scout did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.

    --
    Home Planet:  Na'bora
    --

    Bio:
    (tbd)


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:48 am; edited 4 times in total
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:16 am

    I had to put them side by side to compare.

    Unit Name: NA'BORA SAAR SNIPER
    Planet: Na'Bora


    Unit Name: SILENT STALKER
    Planet: Na'Bora


    General: Aquilla
    Species: Saar
    Type: Uncommon Hero
    Class: Scout
    Personality: Precise
    Size: Medium 5


    General: Aquilla
    Species: Saar
    Type: Uncommon Hero
    Class: Scout
    Personality: Precise
    Size: Medium 5


    Stats
    Life = 3
    Range = 8
    Move = 5
    Attack = 2
    Defense = 3
    Points: 40


    Stats
    Life = 3
    Range = 8
    Move = 5
    Attack = 2
    Defense = 3
    Points: 55


    Special Powers
    SNIPER TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Na'bora Saar Sniper, if this Na'bora Saar Sniper did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.

    RECON COORDINATION BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Silent Stalker, if this Silent Stalker did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.


    RECONNAISSANCE COORDINATION
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is an unengaged Na'bora Saar Sniper you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control, that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Na'bora Saar Sniper, rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll.

    ADVANCED TEAM SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is an unengaged Silent Stalker you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure. When a Sniper you control, that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Silent Stalker, rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll.


    From what I can tell, proposed changes include name, power names and points.

    Based on numerous play tests, the change to 55 points sounds feasible to me. I don't really like the new name due to similarity to Death Stalkers. How about "SAAR SCOUT"?

    For the first power, I would prefer "RECON BONDING"

    For the second power, I would prefer "RECON SPOTTER"

    In my mind, the Recon summarizes what this figure does and the power names are simpler.

    Just my 6 cents.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:19 am

    Bio:
    The Saar are a race of feline humanoids from the planet Na’bora that have evolved with uncanny mental abilities. The Saar have developed powerful empathic senses that allowed them to attune to the wildlife and plant-life of their homeland.

    Throughout their history, the Saar homeworld has been attacked by more technologically advanced species. However the intense psychic connection of the Saar to each other and their native habitat, and their nature strength and fighting prowess, has allowed to defeat these invaders. The Saar have adapted what technology has remained and have found that their psychic abilities allow them to intuitively learn even from machines and devices.

    In recent times, an advanced team of Saar rangers came under attack when scouting out a new enemy force. The felines were quickly overrun by Soulborgs and the strange hybrid of “man-and-machine” played haywire with the Saar’s empathy. As the valiant defenders tried to pull the wounded to safety, they were pulled across space and time to Valhalla by Aquilla.

    The Arch-Kyrie General tended to the wounded and found a common bond with the people of Na’bora. The Saar learned of the great battle raging on Valhalla and that the villainous generals were targeting their world as well.

    The first to join Aquilla’s army were the “Whisper Scouts,” so named by the Mohican River Tribe, because the Saar are both incredibly stealthy but also, they do not speak - only "whispering into the minds" of their allies. These silent warriors are a highly skilled scouts and marksmen. Their rifles have advanced optical sights and fire a deadly pulse of energy plasma that produces little sound or muzzle flash. The Whisper Scouts are best when coordinating in groups and they have adapted their telepathic abilities to send images and messages to their allies on the battlefield. This allows them to assist other marksmen to coordinate attacks on enemy positions and to relay vulnerabilities in defenses.


    Last edited by Lord Kai on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:54 am; edited 4 times in total
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:20 am

    Ha!  Nomad - you posted just as I was adding the Bio.

    I'm not too excited about the names - so I'm flexible there.  However I don't like powers to have the same names/keywords.

    For the first power, I would prefer "RECON BONDING"

    For the second power, I would prefer "RECON SPOTTER"

    I made these changes:
    Special Powers
    ADVANCED SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is an unengaged Silent Stalker you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure. When a Sniper you control, that is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Silent Stalker, rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll.

    RECON TEAM BONDING
    After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with this Silent Stalker, if this Silent Stalker did not destroy a figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other Scout or Sniper Hero you control.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:35 am

    That has happened a few times to me too.

    I will respond to the bio when time allows . . . which might be in a while.

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