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    W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:01 am

    OK, final editing on this figure. Here are my two cents - suggestions in red, commentary in blue.

    Unit Name: ZAIKEN

    General: Utgar
    Planet: Eberron or Feylund?

    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Commander
    Personality: Ferocious(I don't see him playing this way by looking at other Ferocious units . . . maybe Confident, Bold, or Fearless?). Battleplan is a great way to see all of the personalities by selecting the sort options)

    Size: Medium 5
    Points: 100

    Stats
    Life:       5
    Move:      6
    Range:    1
    Attack:    3
    Defense:  3


    MARINE COMMANDER
    After taking a turn with Zaiken, you may take a turn with 3 common heroes with the Amphibious or Water Mastery special powers.  Units taking a turn with Marine Commander may not use other bonding powers.

    MARINE COMMANDER
    After revealing an Order Marker on Zaiken, and taking a turn with Zaiken, you may take a turn with up to 3 Common Heroes or 1 Common Squad you control with the Amphibious or Water Mastery special powers. Figures taking a turn with Marine Commander may not use other bonding powers this turn.


    You may have missed the "or 1 common squad" suggestion. What do you think? The rest of the text follows more closely to other figures in Heroscape, but could use some more effort on the wording. Is the last sentence to prevent future bonding possibilities? Does the change in the first clause make that unnecessary?

    SUPERIOR WATER MASTERY
    When Zaiken is on a water space, add 2 to attack and 1 to his defense.  Zaiken does not have to stop his movement when entering a water space.

    SUPERIOR WATER MASTERY
    When Zaiken is on a water space, add 2 to his Attack and 1 to his Defense. Zaiken does not have to stop his movement when entering a water space.


    WALL OF WATER
    When Zaiken is on a water space, when defending each shield rolled counts for one additional block.

    WALL OF WATER
    When defending with Zaiken while he is on a water space, each shield rolled counts for one additional block. Zaiken cannot be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph while he is on a water space.
    I added the last sentence. What do you think? He is one with the water he is in, so you can't summon him out or do a defensive vault with him . . . it wouldn't change his value at all.[/color]
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:29 am


    Yeah, BOLD or FEARLESS is much better. I picked Ferocious because of the Sahuagin Raiders ~ but he's more controlled than that.

    And yes - in my rush to cut/paste I forgot about the potential future squad.


    MARINE COMMANDER
    After revealing an Order Marker on Zaiken, and taking a turn with Zaiken, you may take a turn with up to 3 Common Heroes or 1 Common Squad you control with the Amphibious or Water Mastery special powers. Figures taking a turn with Marine Commander may not use other bonding powers this turn.

    {Cool!}


    WALL OF WATER
    The "not being moved .. " is a really great idea. I wonder if it could be an 'option' if he wanted to be moved - like Saylind is in your Army or something.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:34 am

    from the previous post
    changes are red
    Damons thoughts are blue
    my input is pinkish
    Unit Name: ZAIKEN

    General: Utgar  being a water guy I kind of see him fitting in with Aquilla
    Planet: Eberron or Feylund?I also like the idea of thehttp://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=48188&page=3 that Siiv is from.  Although the water elemental is from Toril.

    Species: Primordial
    Type: Unique Hero
    Class: Commander
    Personality: Ferocious(I don't see him playing this way by looking at other Ferocious units . . . maybe Confident, Bold, or Fearless?). Battleplan is a great way to see all of the personalities by selecting the sort options)  I don't see him as Ferocious either, I do like bold.

    Size: Medium 5
    Points: 100

    Stats
    Life:       5
    Move:      6
    Range:    1
    Attack:    3
    Defense:  3


    MARINE COMMANDER
    After taking a turn with Zaiken, you may take a turn with 3 common heroes with the Amphibious or Water Mastery special powers.  Units taking a turn with Marine Commander may not use other bonding powers.

    MARINE COMMANDER
    After revealing an Order Marker on Zaiken, and taking a turn with Zaiken, you may take a turn with up to 3 Common Heroes or 1 Common Squad you control with the Amphibious or Water Mastery special powers. Figures taking a turn with Marine Commander may not use other bonding powers this turn.


    I like Damon's wording and thoughts here.  I could still see some bonding loops with future units (that we don't create) if the last sentence isn't there.

    You may have missed the "or 1 common squad" suggestion. What do you think? The rest of the text follows more closely to other figures in Heroscape, but could use some more effort on the wording. Is the last sentence to prevent future bonding possibilities? Does the change in the first clause make that unnecessary?


    SUPERIOR WATER MASTERY
    When Zaiken is on a water space, add 2 to attack and 1 to his defense.  Zaiken does not have to stop his movement when entering a water space.

    SUPERIOR WATER MASTERY
    When Zaiken is on a water space, add 2 to his Attack and 1 to his Defense. Zaiken does not have to stop his movement when entering a water space.


    WALL OF WATER
    When Zaiken is on a water space, when defending each shield rolled counts for one additional block.

    WALL OF WATER
    When defending with Zaiken while he is on a water space, each shield rolled counts for one additional block. Zaiken cannot be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph while he is on a water space.
    I added the last sentence. What do you think? He is one with the water he is in, so you can't summon him out or do a defensive vault with him . . . it wouldn't change his value at all.
    The Warforged might argue the no change in cost.  It is pretty thematic and entertaining idea.  Isn't defensive vault where you move your own figure, not the opponents?  I might be missing something.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:42 am

    Thanks for the input!

    Maybe we should keep the last line in on the first power just in case something else comes in down the line.

    Yep - you are right on Defensive Vault. I was thinking about the Warforged and their switch when I typed that, just got the wrong power named. Something to consider, anyways. I don't think this would change the point value, still. It just seemed thematic for the "Wall of Water" power.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:57 pm

    Here is my first go-around with the card.

    I reworded the last power slightly to be similar to Microcorp Sighting. I left the proposed last sentence off until it is decided if it is wanted.

    I left the planet as Eberron (same as Kurrok).

    Anything and everything can be changed - I just wanted to get a start on it.



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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:12 pm


    Card looks great!!! Glad that you chose the picture that you did ... looks awesome!


    I would be okay if he followed AQUILLA .. since the Water Elemental does. Guess it depends whether he is a "good guy" or a "bad guy." Since the Forest Primordial (Tawarthion) was going to be Aquilla to match the Sylvan Animae .. I think I had Zaiken following a different General.

    We could have all of the Primordials follow Aquilla, or we could split them out.


    For planet ~ I'll have to figure out where all of the Primordials come from.


    I think keeping the "no other bonding" in is better safe than sorry.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:47 pm

    Thanks.

    I vote to have the primordials split between the generals. Saguhan Raiders follow Utgar. I am good with whatever.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:28 pm

    The blue and gold of the figurine look odd on Utgar's card, but I don't really care one way or another of where he ends up.  I'll paint mine if he stays with Utgar.  Awesome job on the card and design.

    should it be under Marine Commander
    Figures taking a turn with Marine Commander may not use any other bonding powers this turn.

    This leads to some questions about secondary bonding- will they get Taelords attack or such, or am I reading in to the bonding too much.

    Superior Water Mastery
    When Zaiken is on a water space add 2 to his attack value and 1 to his defense value.

    Wall of Water
    When defending with Zaiken while he is on a water space, each shield.....
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:50 pm

    Bonding refers to being able to take a turn with a figure. Taelord's Attack Aura would not be considered bonding.

    "value" is not used on the water mastery power of the Water Elemental or amphibious power of the Sahuagin Raider, but we can add it in if desired.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:05 pm

    Thanks, I was certain I was reading too much into bonding, just wanted to make sure.

    I think the any should be included (I think)

    I like the start of the last power better as proposed (follows Sentinels of Jandar), but ok as is.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:50 pm

    The wording of the last power follows the Microcorps.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:19 pm

    Very good then, sorry if I'm questioning things too closely.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:31 pm

    Please don't be sorry. Please question everything - that is how things are improved.

    I just prefer it the way it is written on the card. I don't really think one is better than the other.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:28 am


    Yeah, all that Blue/Gold does look a little weird for an UTGAR card : (

    We could do something like:

    Forest - Ullar (so this would be Tawarthion)
    Water - Aquilla (so Zaiken)
    Fire - Utgar (since Fire Elementals are Utgar)
    Earth - Einar (again Earth Elemental match)
    Air - Jandar (ditto)


    Would that be better?
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:43 am

    Good break down for potential generals . . . Zaiken just doesn't look Utgar. Moving him to Aquilla works for me. I will redo the card if we are all on board.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:45 am

    Nomad wrote:Good break down for potential generals . . . Zaiken just doesn't look Utgar. Moving him to Aquilla works for me. I will redo the card if we are all on board.

    I'm good for Aquilla. Sorry for making you re-do the card. Hopefully its an easy cut/copy/paste thing.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:56 am

    Don't worry about any extra effort on doing cards right now. I'm pretty open for the next 5 days so I wanted to get a head start on the cards. I have 4 more cards started for other figures in development (Caitlin shot a bunch of pics for me this morning).

    After next Tuesday, I won't have as much free time so I figured I should get them going.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:21 am

    Zaiken craft draft re-do:



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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:38 pm


    Yeah, the Blue & Gold of Aquilla really works with this guy! Thanks again for re-doing the card.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:14 am

    Do we need more play tests or can we move to final editing?
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:32 am

    I haven't had a chance to play Zaiken yet, but it is looking slim for a chance in the near future so I am good with whatever.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:07 am


    In the three play-tests we did about a month ago, Zaiken was pretty good. He is terrain-dependent much like Yeti's or Marro Dudge to be his most effective. Maybe 1-2 more play-tests against some A+ units would close him out.

    I'd say he's about 90% there.

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:52 am

    Yes!

    I will give Zaiken some more play tests. Stay tuned.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:28 pm

    Kai and I got a play test in: Zaiken, Water Elem x7, Saughin Raiders x6, Marro Warriors, Isamu v. KoWx4, Gilbert, Dendrick, Eldgrim. This was one fun battle! It was an a map with a good distribution of water . . . and boy, is Zaiken tough on water - he was a beast and really brought the Elementals and Raiders into a fun contest. I finally forced him to come off the water in the end game. All that was left was a 1/2 life Sir Gilbert. Great game. I think Zaiken is good to go. A few more play tests perhaps, and I know he won't be nearly this good on a map without water.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:36 am

    Dude, I *finally* did a Bio.  I also have the basic background for the "Primordials."  Let me know what you think : )

    The Primordials
    For over a century, a secret order of sorcerers of Eberron sought to master the arcane arts of elemental magic.  The order divided their pursuit among five elements:  Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Wood.  Members of the order researched rituals and spells that would help them harness and command their chosen elemental “school.”  The highest ranking member of each school carried the title of Prime Master, or Primordial.  The Primordials passed on their knowledge to different apprentices, and those aspiring magicians were dispatched on quests across Eberron and the other realms to increase the knowledge and power of the Primordials.

    Recently on Valhalla, the Generals of each faction have summoned a Primordial of each Elemental school.  Now armed with new methods of magic, the Generals are tasking the Primordial sorcerers to use their powers in the Battle of All Time.

    Zaiken, Prime Master of Water
    Zaiken was once a human wizard who sought mastery over the element of water.  In his pursuit of knowledge, Zaiken used rituals to polymorph himself into various oceanic creatures.  Eventually the transformation magic became permanent and he is now more of an aquatic elf than a human.  But Zaiken welcomes his new form, his blue skin and gills being an outward sign of his goal to master the element of water.

    As part of his magical abilities, Zaiken is able to summon water elementals and command the more savage creatures that dwell beneath the waves.  Because of his abilities, Aquilla has drafted Zaiken for her army.  After spending some time on Valhalla, Zaiken found surprising allies with the Sahuagin Raiders of Toril, who have a similar race on Zaiken’s homeworld.  Small groups of the Raiders have left Utgar’s camp under the enchantments of the wizard and now fight at his side.

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    Re: W1 Zaiken (new name) Released

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