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    W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:14 pm

    If the Venoc Warlord is in range of Jean then the Warlord would get the bonus - the power is on the unique figure's card. The Warlord's power doesn't specify a range. It would be my conclusion that all of the Venoc Vipers or Aubrien Archers would receive benefit from the frenzy bonus.

    Jean got his first action in a battle yesterday. Jacob ran him in a Spearman, Bishop, Count army of 400 points in a three-way battle. Jean did little except for boosting three initiative rolls to break a tied rolled and he was the last one taken out by Kyrllin. I'll do a an official report when time permits.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:44 pm

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Jean de Ascalon

    THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.

    His powers should not affect DO's.  Attack 1 is pretty small if he is a Valiant Warrior.  I think 2 would be better.  Was the inspiring idea for personality seen?  I wouldn't mind if the add would work for any 20-sided roll a hero makes within 8 spaces- this way it could help when rolling for glyph powers/traps, and for a way for him to help the airborne drop (although not as big of a deal here.)

    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?

    Believe it or not he was, and I was sad when he died.  I put 2 early order markers on him so that he could help Cyprien to over the midpoint of the map.  Other than that only the X marker was on him.

    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?

    Yes and No.  He doesn't boost anything too much to be considered annoying.

    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?

    Every 20-sided roll, with Cyprien on every chilling touch but 1 when he was out of range, and Iskra until the Retchets were summoned

    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?

    Not much that a 20 pointer can or should do in this regards.  Trying to make sure you heroes don't outrun is interesting, or placing him in the best spot.

    BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?  

    As a valiant Warrior he bonds with NWHC Templars of Ascalon.  No loops that I see.

    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?

    As a Human following Einar he gets Count Raymond's move bonus.  Gives 4th mass Valiant defense is all I can see.  For the 20-sided roll: Grimnak, Marro Warriors, Ne Goksa, Tarn Viking Warrriors, Kelda, Me Bruqsa, Dund, DW 7000, Saylind, Deadeye, James Murphy, Sudema, Parmenio, Morsbane, Braxas, Jotun, Nikitas, Ninjas of N'wind, Retarius, Kee moshi, Runa, Cyprien, Iskra, Isamu, Marcu, Hive, Sonlen, Torkulna, Arkmer, Emiroon, Dupious, Atlaga, Brave Arrow, Sujoah, Wosaga, Ana, Darrak, Estivara, Greater Ice, Morgrimm, Kurrok, Mind Flayer, Rhogar, Shurrak, Werewolf Lord, Warhulk ogre, Frost Giant, Ice Troll, Master of the Hunt, Elite Onyx, Sir Hawthorne.   (Darrak, Venoc Warlord, Khosumet, Subakna, Valguard, and Sonya, Morgrimm, Warhulk Ogre are not aided.)  Arashara, Elaria, grigor & Rogirg, Manuvi, Mok, - Gammacron, Torver, Uvall.  I don't think any breaks the card or opponent.

    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.

    Not that I see.  Braxas, Cyprien, etc. but they aren't going to be 1 short too often.  In fact in my game with Cyprien if I didn't have the bonus I might have been a little safer with him.

    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?

    As a good filler for needing a 20-sided roll.  I wouldn't mind his attack up to 2 just in case.

    MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?

    Not that I see.

    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.

    Jean gave +1 to Iskra so she could summon the Retchets, 2 of which held the attack and unique attack +1 glyphs for a bit.  Increased Cyprien to 18 for 3 wounds on Finn, 13 for 1 wound of Finn (and kill).  Probably helped about 25-30% of the rolls not including initiative where he was 0 for.

    Map: [Stroll in the park or Stone bridges- 1 rotv 2 tj]
    Units: Army 1: [Cyprien, Sonya, Iskra, Retchets, Tomb skeletons x3, Jean de Ascalon,] VS Army 2: [KoW x3, Finn, Thorgrimm, Eldgrimm, Ellassar]  Blunder on my part, should have been Tombs x2 and Suduma but I pulled the figures wrong.  Knights had an advantage by 80ish points before starting

    This is the same report for Ellassar.

    Jean de Ascalon hogs the X marker throughout, and takes 2 other order markers in the 1st 2 rounds.  This leads to Iskra being able to summon the Retchets, but they are too afraid to get into the Knights zone they opt to go for 2 glyphs (attack +1 and unique attack +1.)  The 3rd tries to get Eldgrim who had the belt of strength glyph, and this backfires as the retchet goes down to Eldgrimm.  Cyp loves the 2 glyphs and Jean's bonus and goes on a rampage (I forget how fun he can be).  The Knights and Finn put 2 wounds on him and Ellassar put 2 on him, but at this point Cyp is full life.  Finn and several knights are vampired before the multi-turn squad becomes too much.  The Knights & co get the Retchets and take over the glyphs.  The very next round the Airborne drop (enhanced by Finn and Eldgrimm and the 2 attack glyphs, but they roll horribly with their 6 to 8 dice managing to only kill Jean, put 2 wounds on Iskra, kill Cyp, and 1 Tomb skeletons.  Cyprien didn't fare much better over the 2 rounds this took with his attack or chilling touch.  Ultimately the Tomb skeletons and Iskra got the last 3 Airborne.  The Skeletons get Thorgrimm and 2 KoW before falling to Ellassar and his height, glyph boosted attack.  Full life Ellassar and 2 Kow remain.


    Final thoughts- I really like what Jean brings to the table.  I would like him to help the airborne, and figures when they roll the 20-sided die for glyphs etc.  Not a game changer but worth 20 as a filler, especially if his attack is upped to 2 like I think it should be.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:24 pm

    Thanks for the play test.

    Derek wrote:Was the inspiring idea for personality seen?

    Yes, I saw it. Sorry that I didn't respond. I would rather keep some kind of synergy/bonding options available to help him keep up with the rest of the army. But if there is a consensus for a change to Inspiring, that would work for me.

    Derek wrote:Attack 1 is pretty small if he is a Valiant Warrior. I think 2 would be better.

    We can look at bumping his attack to 2. I do want to keep him at a low point cost, but 2 attack shouldn't change it that much.

    Derek wrote:I wouldn't mind if the add would work for any 20-sided roll a hero makes within 8 spaces- this way it could help when rolling for glyph powers/traps, and for a way for him to help the airborne drop (although not as big of a deal here.)

    Good question. We can look into expanding it to include any 20-sided roll a for Unique figure. I know there was a reason, but I'll have to think about it again. I don't see how the +1 on the 20-sider would help the Airborne drop because they wouldn't have any figures within 8 spaces of Jean.

    Derek wrote:As a Human following Einar he gets Count Raymond's move bonus. Gives 4th mass Valiant defense is all I can see. For the 20-sided roll: Grimnak, Marro Warriors, Ne Goksa, Tarn Viking Warrriors, Kelda, Me Bruqsa, Dund, DW 7000, Saylind, Deadeye, James Murphy, Sudema, Parmenio, Morsbane, Braxas, Jotun, Nikitas, Ninjas of N'wind, Retarius, Kee moshi, Runa, Cyprien, Iskra, Isamu, Marcu, Hive, Sonlen, Torkulna, Arkmer, Emiroon, Dupious, Atlaga, Brave Arrow, Sujoah, Wosaga, Ana, Darrak, Estivara, Greater Ice, Morgrimm, Kurrok, Mind Flayer, Rhogar, Shurrak, Werewolf Lord, Warhulk ogre, Frost Giant, Ice Troll, Master of the Hunt, Elite Onyx, Sir Hawthorne. (Darrak, Venoc Warlord, Khosumet, Subakna, Valguard, and Sonya, Morgrimm, Warhulk Ogre are not aided.) Arashara, Elaria, grigor & Rogirg, Manuvi, Mok, - Gammacron, Torver, Uvall. I don't think any breaks the card or opponent.

    Wow! Thanks for considering all of these figures. That must have taken a long time to consider and type.

    Derek wrote:Final thoughts- I really like what Jean brings to the table. I would like him to help the airborne, and figures when they roll the 20-sided die for glyphs etc. Not a game changer but worth 20 as a filler, especially if his attack is upped to 2 like I think it should be.

    Good! I'm glad he brings a little to the table. We can look into bumping it to any 20-sider rolls for unique figures, not just on the ones listed on the cards. I don't see how his power to add 1 to a 20-sider would help the Airborne drop because they wouldn't have any figures within 8 spaces of Jean. I wouldn't really want to help the Airborne anyways, they are strong enough in my opinion.

    Do you think bumping his attack to 2 would change his points?

    Damon wrote:If the Venoc Warlord is in range of Jean then the Warlord would get the bonus - the power is on the unique figure's card. The Warlord's power doesn't specify a range. It would be my conclusion that all of the Venoc Vipers or Aubrien Archers would receive benefit from the frenzy bonus.

    Please strike every thing I said above - I was confused. Jean would not boost any Aubrien Archers or Venoc Vipers because they are common figures, whether or not they were within 8 spaces. And, Jean would not provide a +1 boost for the Warlord's boost of +1, because the 20-sider roll is the power listed on the Archers/Vipers card. I really don't know what I was thinking.


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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:27 pm

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Jean de Ascalon

    THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects. PASS. I like the change to Valiant Warrior . . . he does fit the theme of the Templars. His power might not benefit the Templar faction, but it does give Jean a home.

    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play? PASS.

    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying? PASS.

    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable? PASS. The +1 20-sider aided on three initiative rolls, but it 2as not used for any 20-sided rolls on unique cards.

    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game? PASS. Not a whole lot, but he is intended to be filler. He could offer strategy/tactics in keeping him close to uniques with significant 20-sider powers.

    BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately? PASS. No loops.

    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak? PASS. I don’t think bonding with the Templars makes him more powerful than his cost of 20 points. I would still consider Marcu a more powerful 20 pointer, but Jean offers a different option at this cost . . . and could be well worth his 20 points if he can aid a couple of rolls.

    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? PASS. None that I can think of . . . just keeping him in range of a specific unique figure could also be more of a determent than an aid because of having to utilize order markers to move him up.

    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting? PASS. I would pick him when looking for 20 points and having a 20-sider power on a unique army card.

    MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game? PASS.

    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. [insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary] PASS.

    Map: A three player, free construction using one RoTV and 3 RttFF.

    Units:

    Army 1: Cathar Spearmen x3, Count Raymond, Jean de Ascalon, Raelin v1 = 400 points

    VS

    Army 2: Darrin Razorbeak, Beakfaced Sneaks x3, Kyrllin, Quorik Warwitch = 400 points.

    VS

    Army 3: Kurrak, Fire Elemental x3, Water Elemental x2, Earth Elemental, Dumetef = 390 points.

    No detailed round by round comments. Jean didn’t move until the end game. He didn’t benefit Count’s 20-sided power because none of Jacob’s army attempted to leave engagement. Jean did help Jacob win three initiative rolls during the 12 rounds or so . . . is that worth 20 points? Jean was Jacob’s last figure . . . he tried to attack Kyrllin a couple of times with no results. He fell in two attacks from Kyrllin.

    Final thoughts: Jean de Ascalon seems pretty close to done to me. We can play test him in every conceivable combination of 20-sider powers, but I’m not sure if we would get anywhere. Is he worth 20? 25? Would you even try to build an army of 20-sider powers around him? Should his attack go up to 2? If it does, would that affect points? Is there something altogether different we want to do with this sculpt? Perhaps the last question is the most important and should be entertained before moving on . . .
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:24 pm

    I like the thought of bumping his attack to 2, still at 20 pts. In my synergy part I listed the Tarn Viking Warriors but he doesn't help them as they are squad not hero. This guy is good, the sculpt is fitting, and after another playtest or two I vote to move him to final editing.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:32 pm

    Damon wrote:Jean de Ascalon seems pretty close to done to me. We can play test him in every conceivable combination of 20-sider powers, but I’m not sure if we would get anywhere. Is he worth 20? 25? Would you even try to build an army of 20-sider powers around him? Should his attack go up to 2? If it does, would that affect points? Is there something altogether different we want to do with this sculpt? Perhaps the last question is the most important and should be entertained before moving on . . .

    Kai, I know you had reservations about his sculpt and the powers I initially presented . . . before we push this guy forward I want to make sure you are on board. I'm totally willing to do something drastically different with him. A +1 20-sider bonus would fit with many sculpts.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:04 am

    His powers are balanced, and since I like the d20 powers - I certainly think a figure like this is worth creating.

    My reservation on the sculpt is just that, as written, his powers work for Utgar/Valkrill figures too. Since he is a "Templar" figure it might be harder to imagine him drafted for the "evil armies." But hey - Raelin shows up EVERYWHERE ... so its okay.

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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:55 am

    I'll wait until you address the personality change you mentioned in the Corsair thread before doing the Synergies books.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:02 pm

    I know I'm not quite done with playtesting, but here is my first attempt at the card.

    The OP has my latest thoughts on Jean. Changed attack to 2, reworded the power, changed class to Knight, and changed personality to Inspiring (in all playtests, Jean didn't bond with the Templars - they were all dead before I even thought about it) . . . just my latest thoughts. I'm also considering a name change.



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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:43 pm

    Looks good. I like the changes.
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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:26 am

    The Book of Jean de Ascalon

    NWHC WAVE 2-


    - Rulings and Clarifications -
    _______________________________________



    - Combinations and Synergies -

    Synergy Benefits Offered
    - When the Bell Tolls: Unique Army card’s with a 20-sided roll.

    Unique Army Card’s with a 20-sided roll may add 1 for every unrevealed Order Marker with Jean de Ascalon’s WHEN THE BELL TOLLS 20-sided roll enhancer.  Unique Army Card’s with a 20-sided roll include: Grimnak, Ne Goksa, Kelda, Me Burqsa, Dund, DW 7000, Saylind, Deadeye, James Murphy, Sudema, Parmenio, Morsbane, Braxas, Jotun,  Retarius, Kee moshi, Runa, Cyprien, Iskra, Isamu, Marcu, Hive, Sonlen, Torkulna, Arkmer, Emiroon, Dupious, Atlaga, Brave Arrow, Sujoah, Wosaga, Ana, Darrak, Estivara, Greater Ice, Morgrimm, Kurrok, Mind Flayer, Rhogar, Shurrak, Werewolf Lord, Warhulk ogre, Frost Giant, Ice Troll, Master of the Hunt, Elite Onyx, Sir Hawthorne, Arashara, Elaria, grigor & Rogirg, Manuvi, Mok,  Gammacron, Torver, Uvall, Mistress Isadora, Tarn Viking Warriors, Ninja's of the Northern Wind, Elite Onyx Vipers, Marro Warriors.

    Synergy Benefits Received
    - Concan the Kyrie Warrior: Knight and Sentinel Enhancement

    As a Knight, Jean de Ascalon may benefit from Concan the Kyrie Warrior’s KNIGHT AND SENTINEL ENHANCEMENT attack and defense bonus.
    -COUNT RAYMOND: Maneuver 9
    As a human who follows Einar, Jean de Ascalon may benefit from Count Raymond's MANEUVER 9 power to ignore leaving engagement attacks.

    Synergy Imposed
    -

    Added Mistress Isadora


    Last edited by Derek S on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:36 am

    WHEN THE BELL TOLLS
    For each unrevealed Order Marker on Jean de Ascalon's Army card you may add 1 when rolling the 20-sided die for initiative and for any special power on an Unique Army Card of a figure you control within 8 spaces of Jean de Ascalon.

    The new wording opens up 20-sided rolls for Unique Squads. Was that the intent? If I remember right this would include Tarn Viking Warriors and Ninjas of the Northern Wind. I don't think any C3V/SOV unique squads have a 20-sided die roll.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:31 pm

    Derek S wrote:
    WHEN THE BELL TOLLS
    For each unrevealed Order Marker on Jean de Ascalon's Army card you may add 1 when rolling the 20-sided die for initiative and for any special power on an Unique Army Card of a figure you control within 8 spaces of Jean de Ascalon.

    The new wording opens up 20-sided rolls for Unique Squads.  Was that the intent?  If I remember right this would include Tarn Viking Warriors and Ninjas of the Northern Wind.  I don't think any C3V/SOV unique squads have a 20-sided die roll.


    Oh, and the Marro Warriors!!! Sounds good to me.


    ... and the Elite Onyx Vipers.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:26 pm

    That has been the wording all along - at least the Unique Army Card part. Funny we missed that part of the discussion. That was my original intent and I thought about the bump to Marro Warriors, but I never thought about Ninjas and Vipers.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:22 am

    Maybe I just got confused with the Airborne Elite conversation. I'll add the Vipers, Ninjas, Tarn to the books. Cool.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:50 pm

    I am ready to move Jean de Ascalon to final editing unless there are any objections.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:01 am

    Nomad wrote:I am ready to move Jean de Ascalon to final editing unless there are any objections.

    Sounds good.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:37 pm

    Attempt at bio:

    Jean fought with determination at the battle of Ascalon, often inspiring his brethren with his own courage and words of bravery, but he found himself mortally wounded from an arrow to his throat. Jean was summoned to Valhalla with Baron Sebastion, Bishop Thaddeus, and his fellow Templars. Once in Valhalla, Jean was healed from his wounds but could no longer speak. General Einar, aware of Jean's unique abilities, bestowed to Jean an enchanted bell so that heroes of Valhalla who could hear its ring rather than Jean's voice would be inspired to greater feats on the battlefield.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:05 pm

    Nomad wrote:Attempt at bio:

    Jean fought with determination at the battle of Ascalon, often inspiring his brethren with his own courage and words of bravery, but he found himself mortally wounded from an arrow to his throat. Jean was summoned to Valhalla with Baron Sebastion, Bishop Thaddeus, and his fellow Templars. Once in Valhalla, Jean was healed from his wounds but could no longer speak. General Einar, aware of Jean's unique abilities, bestowed to Jean an enchanted bell so that heroes of Valhalla who could hear its ring rather than Jean's voice would be inspired to greater feats on the battlefield.


    WOW! that is fantastic, Nomad!! I love it when a Bio makes me want to field the figure more than his stats!!
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:58 pm

    Excellent bio.

    Added the 4 unique squads to Jean's books.

    Think this guy is good to go!
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:56 pm

    Thanks.

    I have added the card, bio, and book to the OP.

    I have changed the Jean to Approved and Awaiting Release.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:45 pm

    need to change it to "a unique army card" from "an unique army card".
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:00 pm

    Thanks, Derek - great catch Very Happy OP card and power changed from "an" to "a".

    That is one tough exception of the rule of the English language to keep track of.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:06 pm

    I debated which one to question first , Jean or the Gnoll, but finally decided I think it is written properly with "an" but us lazy speaking Americans just say "a". Oops.  jocolor 
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Jean de Ascalon - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:13 pm

    I heard this some time back . . . but never really needed to put in practice until I started making stinking custom cards for Heroscape.

    "An" goes before a noun starting with a vowel, unless the second letter in the following word is a "n" . . . or is it an "n".

    And there are probably exceptions to that.

    Crap - I will forget it tomorrow.

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