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    W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:30 pm

    Derek S wrote:A thought I had here, is what about limiting their Reckless Hero Bonding to small or medium.  This would currently exclude Manauvi(kind of sadly, maybe small, med, or large).  My thought is that some Large or Huge figure could come along that is ultra powerful and break the bonding and theme, while usually small and medium characters are more within reason.

    Reckless Bonding with Small/Medium sounds good. You have a nice set of Heroes to choose from now: "Suds," Martial LaHire, Evar Scarcarver, and now Razorbeak - plus future Pirates. That's a nice mix.

    Manauvi is pretty awesome so losing him hurts a bit - but I think Martial LaHire becomes your Go-To hero after "Suds" - and Martial is a much stronger figure with Bonding.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:26 pm

    Yep - if you want to limit it, I would go with small/medium and dump Manauvi. He has enough fun hanging out with the Varkaanans. Plus, with Martial not getting that +2 move after Manauvi dies, it will keep him in check a little better.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:33 am

    Not 100% I do want to limit it, but a little worried about future creations and what it could do to their bonding. Would it be better to go as currently written and not worry about some really good reckless heroes? We could always change them down the road if needed. I kind of liked Manuavi in the mix, I'm just a little worried about future units/Manuavi combo. I could really go either way (just had a thought). If you both think small/medium is the best way to go than that is the way we'll go that way, if not we'll keep it as is.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Lord Kai on Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:41 pm

    From a "Bio" / Story perspective - it doesn't quite make sense for Manauvi to be in an Army with the Pirates {though his Bio is only a few sentences long}.

    I guess the question is which should win out: Story Arch or Game Mechanics? I'd lean more towards Story Arch personally .. but again, Heroscape battles aren't always logical from a Story perspective (hence there are several Utgar/Valkrill Armies with Raelin in their builds - so it might not matter).

    I do think the key to the Pirates is their Heroes. If Glyphs are not very strategic, then I see a lot of damage being dealt by the Reckless Heroes {double attacks from Martial LaHire, Evar, and potentially a Battle Frenzy Manauvi .. and a big Ranged shot from "Suds."}. The more Heroes that you create that are Reckless to support the Pirates will strengthen their Power Ranking. They are a great melee unit with Suds and Martial LaHire already.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:52 pm

    C3V PUBLIC PLAY TEST FEEDBACK COMPREHENSIVE-FORM
    C3V Public Playtest Form

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Barbary Corsairs.

    THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
    I think plunder is a very appropriate power for a squad of Pirates. Reckless hero bonding is good as well. I think limiting it to small or medium characters is the best route to go for fear of future reckless large heroes. Also, Manauvi’s speed enhancement feels off with the Corsair/Pirate faction.

    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
    Yes, I have enjoyed playing the Corsairs and really like the way Plunder currently works.

    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
    The Corsairs are acceptable to play against. The only real annoying thing could be their ability to move glyphs to more advantageous locations.

    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
    Yes.

    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
    Yes, I think Plunder is an interesting tactic, and the strategy to pull it off adds to the game.

    BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?
    There are no bonding loops. Currently, Suds, Evar Scarcarver, Martial, and Darrin Razorbeak are the only Reckless Small or Medium characters.

    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
    I think dropping Manauvi from the bonding keeps everything in check.

    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.
    The ability to move glyphs and take away treasure glyphs from opponents is pretty powerful but I haven’t seen it as broken yet. The powers are clearly defined.



    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?
    Yes.

    MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?
    Not that I see.

    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
    Yes, the Corsairs performed adequately in both games. I think 60 points should be their cost. In the first game Plunder never really came into play. In the second game the Corsairs Plundered the attack +1 treasure glyph from Grimnak. Martial ended up with it, and I think that was a big factor in the Corsairs victory.

    Map: [Snow Drifts- Custom BOV style map with 1 BotU and 2 Taelik Tundra sets]
    Units: Army 1: [Barbary Corsairs (60pts x4), Suds (110), Martial (90), Darrin (60). 500pts.] VS Army 2: [Grimnak (120), Tornak (100), Nerak (50), Heavy Gruts x3 (70), and Jean de Ascalon (20). 500pts.]

    Rd. 1 The Corsairs got to the Intercept Order Marker glyph and remove order marker #3 from the Heavies. Darrin got the Whetstone of Venom treasure glyph. Pirates kill a Heavy and Darrin Acrobats to get next to Grimnak for 1 wound.
    Rd 2. Corsairs put 1 wound on Jean. Darrin misses with double attack on 2 Heavy’s. Grimnak does some chomping on a Pirate and on Darrin, Darrin gets a Heavy but take some wounds in the process. A Corsair gets on the Unique Attack +1 glyph. Pirates lose 4 of their ranks to Heavy attacks.
    Rd 3. Nerak moves out to aid with his aura and Heavy’s take over the Unique Attack glyph. Grimnak chomps a couple more Corsairs. Heavy’s put 3 wounds on Suds, who leaves engagement for 1 wound to try and stay alive with his dwindling defense. Suds manages to put 1 wound on Grimnak with a 4/6 skull roll and gets a heavy. Pirates add 2 wounds to Grimnak and get a couple of Heavys.
    Rd 4. Suds finishes off Grimnak. Pirates put a couple of wounds on Nerak and get a few Heavy’s. Nerak and Heavy’s get a couple of Pirates. Suds gets a Heavy before he and a few more Pirates fall to the Heavy’s.
    Rd 5. Heavy’s get last 2 Pirates who lose 2 order markers. Nerak puts a couple of wounds on Martial, but Martial finishes off Nerak. Heavy’s put 2 more wounds on Martial.
    Rd 6. Heavy’s finish off Martial for the win. They had 3 Heavy’s, Tornak, and a 1 life Jean left.

    Final thoughts- Suds didn’t do a whole lot and fell pretty quickly. Darrin was a threat and did OK before being chomped. Jean never decided anything with his 20-sided bonus. The Corsairs performed decently against the Heavy’s.


    ARMY TEST 2

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
    [Suds gets Tornak, 1 Heavy, and 1 wound on Grimnak. Darrin manages 1 wound on Grimnak. The Corsairs Plunder treasure glyph from Grimnak, kill 6 Heavy’s, put 1 wound on Grimnak, and 2 on Nerak. Jean and Lodin gave the Heavy’s Initiative in round 6 which almost gave them a Victory. Jean’s 1 attack wasn’t enough to do any damage in his 2 attacks. The Corsairs manage a tight win with 1 Corsair and a 2 life Martial left.


    Map: [Same]
    Units: Army 1: [Same] ([army 1 point total]) VS Army 2: [Same] ([army 2 point total])

    Final thoughts
    Barbary Corsairs- I think 60 pts. is correct and feel comfortable moving them to final editing
    “Suds” Merrick- I am not convinced 110 pts is correct but am comfortable enough to move him to final editing at that cost.
    Darrin Razorbeak- I like his little changes and bonding with the Corsairs. I could see him moving to final editing.
    Jean de Ascalon- I think his attack should be 2 and he could move to final editing.

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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:28 pm

    Thanks for the play test.

    I vote to move to final editing as well and concur with the change to bonding with small and medium Reckless heroes and the drop to 60 points. After play testing them at least a half dozen times, I am more than eager to move them forward. I love the plunder power - very thematic for pirates.

    I am not convinced that Suds wasn't priced right at 100, but 110 seems OK too. I think the drop in his attack was enough to adjust his power.

    I also think Darrin Razorbeak is good to go with a Reckless personality and like the option to bond with pirates.

    I have been play testing Jean with an attack of 2 in our Valentine's Day Massacre tournament. I will do a play test form at the end of the tournament. I will be bumping his attack to 2 and perhaps changing his personality (I'll explain in his thread).
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:19 pm

    OP updated to final editing.  Here is where they are currently at.

    General- Utgar
    Planet- Earth
    Name- Barbary Corsairs
    common squad
    class- pirates
    species- human
    personality- Maurading
    size- medium
    height- 5
    life- 1
    move- 5
    range- 1
    attack- 3
    defense- 3
    points- 60

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph you may place that glyph on a space that one of the Barbary Corsairs occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs end their movement engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of the Barbary Corsairs.

    Reckless Hero Bonding
    Before taking a turn with the Barbary Corsairs, you may first take a turn with any Hero you control who has the reckless personality.

    I am still not certain if they are Utgar, Valkrill, or to a lesser extent Vyadar.  Also, in the Plunder power it seems a bit odd that the wording in the first part of the power is different than the second.  Would this be better?  and adding small or med. to bonding.

    Plunder
    If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs end their movement engaged with a figure occupying a glyph you may place that glyph on a space that one of the Barbary Corsairs occupies.  If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs end their movement engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of the Barbary Corsairs.

    Reckless Hero Bonding

    Before taking a turn with the Barbary Corsairs, you may first take a turn with any small or medium Hero you control with the reckless personality.

    The Book of Barbary Corsairs

    NWHC WAVE 2-


    - Rulings and Clarifications -
    _______________________________________



    - Combinations and Synergies -

    Synergy Benefits Offered
    - Reckless Hero Bonding: Barbary Corsairs

    As a Small or Medium Reckless Hero, any of the following may benefit from RECKLESS HERO BONDING; “Suds” Merrick, Darrin Razorbeak, Evar Scarcarver, Martial La Hire.
    - Reckless Abandon: “Suds” Merrick
    Being a pirate army card, for every revealed order marker on the Barbary Corsairs army card add 1 to “Suds” Merrick’s attack value.

    Synergy Benefits Received
    -

    Synergy Imposed
    - Reckless Abandon: “Suds” Merrick

    Being a pirate army card, for every revealed order marker on the Barbary Corsairs army card subtract 1 from “Suds” Merrick’s attack value.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:41 pm

    I like the rewording of Plunder, but I will suggest a bit:

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph you may place that glyph on a space that one of the Barbary Corsairs occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of the Barbary Corsairs.[/quote]

    Either way, the could pull a double heist. Two of them move next to a glyph holder. One moves next to a carrier who was already engaged with another pirate . . . food for thought.

    I'm thinking this fits more in line with others who bond with a specific personality:

    RECKLESS HERO BONDING
    Before taking a turn with the Barbary Corsairs, you may first take a turn with any small or medium Reckless Hero you control.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:03 am

    Both wordsmithing options sound good, although a question with Plunder.

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph you may place that glyph on a space that one of the Barbary Corsairs occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of the Barbary Corsairs.

    Is the red language explicit enough in clarifying that it must be one of the two adjacent Corsairs?

    I haven't played that many games that have both kinds of glyphs. Technically, they could steal 2 normal glyphs or 2 treasure glyphs with the current wording. Thanks for noticing it. I am OK with those possibilities if they happen to play out as I don't think it will happen too often.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:32 pm

    Yep - I think we will need to be more specific in the language. Here is a try:

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph, you may place that glyph on a space that a Barbary Corsair engaged with that figure occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of the Barbary Corsairs who are engaged with that figure.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:54 pm


    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph, you may place that glyph on a space that one of those engaged Barbary Corsairs occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of those engaged Barbary Corsairs.

    or

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph, you may place that glyph on a space that a Barbary Corsair engaged with that figure occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of the Barbary Corsairs who are engaged with that figure.

    not sure which is better or if we can't come up with something better. I think I prefer your language.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:17 pm

    bio-
    For 3 centuries the Barbary Corsairs were the most dangerous Pirates in existence. Their acts of piracy gave the Ottoman Empire its strength and treasure. The Holy League was created to squash the Corsair power and many would lose their lives in the Battle of Lepanto. The Corsairs were out shipped, out manned, and out gunned yet fought fiercely against the Holy League. The Corsairs were amazingly winning the battle until the forces of the Holy League faced less and less attacks. Soon the tide had turned and the Holy League began to board galley after galley finding many of the ships empty. Utgar thought the Corsairs would be an invaluable addition to his army in the battle of all time.

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph, you may place that glyph on a space that one of those engaged Barbary Corsairs occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of those engaged Barbary Corsairs.

    PLUNDER
    After moving and before attacking, if at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure occupying a glyph, you may place that glyph on a space that one of those engaged Barbary Corsairs occupies. If at least 2 Barbary Corsairs are engaged with a figure carrying a glyph, you may place that glyph on any empty space adjacent to one of those engaged Barbary Corsairs.

    I think we can do without the engaged wording as it is already implied.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:41 pm

    My suggestion for final editing . . .

    RECKLESS HERO BONDING
    Before taking a turn with the Barbary Corsairs, you may first take a turn with any small or medium Reckless Hero you control.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:25 pm

    Here is my attempt at the card . . .



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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:32 am

    Could you make the pictures larger on the Master Rules side?


    There is a bit of inconsistency in the official Classic Heroscape cards.  Like some of the Squad figures are larger images, while others are smaller (showing the full figure).


    Examples:
    Romans
    http://www.hasbro.com/common/images/heroscape/characters/master/C2C3C7A6-45F3-4CED-9B1C-A9FC3D876ADE.jpg

    Mohicans
    http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/mohican_river_tribe_original.jpg
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:34 pm

    "you control" was missing at the end of Reckless Hero Bonding. Looks good.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:32 pm

    I'll fix the text on the card.

    Regarding the pic on the front side, yes, I was least pleased with my efforts on this card. Making them larger might do the trick - I'll give it a whirl.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:57 pm

    I never did send you the better pictures I have of these guys, let me know if you still want them.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:05 pm

    If you think they are better than the pics I used, please send them.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Lord Kai on Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:24 pm

    Here are some other Pirate figure options:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mage-Knight-Heroclix-Resurrection-004-Xandressan-Windsman-Common-/331061230524?pt=Games_US&hash=item4d14c97bbc

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mage-Knight-Minions-062-Xandressan-Captain-Standard-/350545930031?pt=Games_US&hash=item519e2a672f

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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:46 pm

    Thanks, Kai. Keep up the search . . . I don't really care for either one as a pirate figure.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:55 pm



    OK, I fixed the text on the bonding power and increased the size of each pirate by 30% - they do look better in my opinion.

    But, honest feedback is appreciated. I can change sizes or do this card from scratch again if it would make it better.

    Also, I have thoroughly scoured released classic and C3V cards for wording issues and found none. I'm good to go with the wording on the powers.

    The more I think about the Plunder power the more I grasp how awesome it is. Nicely done!
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:01 pm

    Looks good to me. Thanks Damon.

    Any suggestions/rewrites on the bio

    bio-
    For 3 centuries the Barbary Corsairs were the most dangerous Pirates in existence. Their acts of piracy gave the Ottoman Empire its strength and treasure. The Holy League was created to squash the Corsair power and many would lose their lives in the Battle of Lepanto. The Corsairs were out shipped, out manned, and out gunned yet fought fiercely against the Holy League. The Corsairs were amazingly winning the battle until the forces of the Holy League faced less and less attacks. Soon the tide had turned and the Holy League began to board galley after galley finding many of the ships empty. Utgar thought the Corsairs would be an invaluable addition to his army in the battle of all time.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:51 am

    Other than the bio I think these guys are good to go if you all do as well.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W2 Barbery Corsairs- released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:01 pm

    Bio looks good to me.

    Approved!

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