W4 - Vadik Hollesturm - Fire Primordial - ready for final

We have play tested a few times with this figure. I'm going to have to go back and re-read powers and comments to date. I thought we were pretty close a year ago . . . so, it looks like your are agreeing with me that we should drop Searing Intensity, which is good in my opinion. When I get some time, I will do a full theory-scape of the new proposal.

Do we think that Fire Elementals are the most dangerous of the Elementals -- if we had a bonding option that allows more than 1? Should it just be Kurrok that allows you to take a turn with multiple Fire Elementals?

Brainstorming here - what about a d20 roll to see how many Fire Elementals that Deathstorm gets to take at turn with? We can drop the Obsidian Guardian bonding (making him just like Laglor - you have to spend OM's to move the Aura) and make Fire Elemental bonding like Thralls.

FIRESTORM
After revealing an order marker on this card, before taking a turn with "Deathstorm," roll the 20-sided die.
- If you roll a 1-5, you may take a turn with 1 common Fire Elemental you control.
- If you roll a 6-15, you may take a turn with up to 2 common Fire Elementals you control.
- If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take a turn with up to 3 common Fire Elementals you control.


We could bump the d20 range to make it a lower probability to take a turn with 2 Elementals.

--

New thought:

IMBUED WITH FIRE
Start the game with 3 black Imbued markers on this card. After taking a turn with Deathstorm, you may choose any figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm. Place the Imbued marker on base of the figure. Figures with an Imbued marker gain Lava Resistance until the start of the next round.


I would drop the bonding option, so Deathstorm would have:

Imbued with Fire
Lava Resistance
Lava Throw Enhancement


This way, he doesn't bond with the Obsidians but his Lava Throw boost makes him a natural ally. He won't bond with Fire Elementals either. The ability to give temporary Lava Resistance is pretty awesome though : ) so he could be drafted in some armies .. even just Kurrok and the Firestorm.

Imbued with Fire is interesting . . . but would only be useful on a map with lava.

What about this? You know how Mika starts with shadow tiles . . . why not have this guy start with lava tiles. He can place them on the map, one at a time, on an adjacent space after taking a turn. Protection, but also placing it on a higher spot, an obsidian could climb up and be a threat (with a total range of 5).

Powers:
The one mentioned above
Lava Resistance
Lava Throw Enhancement

I would not mind continuing with a fourth power . . . Firelord Bonding.

These powers would be short enough to fit on a card.

Nomad wrote:Imbued with Fire is interesting . . . but would only be useful on a map with lava.

What about this? You know how Mika starts with shadow tiles . . . why not have this guy start with lava tiles. He can place them on the map, one at a time, on an adjacent space after taking a turn. Protection, but also placing it on a higher spot, an obsidian could climb up and be a threat (with a total range of 5).

Powers:
The one mentioned above
Lava Resistance
Lava Throw Enhancement

I would not mind continuing with a fourth power . . . Firelord Bonding.

These powers would be short enough to fit on a card.

Molten Lava tiles would be cool but they do create "instant death" spots for other figures that could be abused with Wyverns and Chain-Fighters : (

Making modifications to:
1.  Bonding - reversing the bonding to make Deathstorm more like the Minions of Utgar/Taelord bonding.
2.  Lava Throw - giving more range to Obsidians but decreasing attack by 1.


"Deathstorm" (place holder name)
FIRE PRIMORDIAL

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 7
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
100 points

FIRELORD'S FOLLOWERS
After revealing an order marker on the Obsidian Guards or a Fire Elemental you control, instead of taking a turn with that Army Card, you may take a turn with Deathstorm.

LAVA RESISTANT
Deathstorm never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces.

LAVA THROW EMPOWERMENT (change from Lava Throw Enhancement)
Friendly figures with Lava Throw special power that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm may add 3 to their range.  If a figure uses Lava Throw Empowerment, they subtract 1 die from their attack.

OK - I went read through the entire thread. Sounds like you really want to keep some kind of bonding option. What do you think about this?

INFERNIUS (trying to get the naming rights . . . or get the ball rolling about thinking about a name)

Figure: Deathstorm #41, Justice League: Trinity War, DC HeroClix

General: Utgar
Planet: Grut

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 5
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
110 points (dropped the range from your recent proposal, but bumped the points per the powers below)

LAVA RESISTANT
Infernius never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces.

LAVA THROW ENHANCEMENT
Friendly figures with the Lava Throw Special Power add 2 to their range when they are within 4 spaces of Infernius. (I kinda prefer the added range of 2 without having to subtract one die from their attack)

FIRELORD COMMAND
After revealing on Order Marker on this Army Card, instead of taking a turn with Infernius, you may take a turn with one squad or one hero who has the Lava Resistance Special Power. (oh boy, I think we are getting somewhere = Brunak, Golem, Moltenclaw, Obsidians, Shurrak, FE's. Rewording necessary)

SEARING INTENSITY
After moving and before attacking, you must roll the 20-sided die once for each figure adjacent to at least one Fire Elemental you control. If you roll a 14 or higher, that figure receives 1 wound. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by Searing Intensity. (As a primordial of fire, I like some synergy with the Fire Elementals. Yep - the same as the FE power, but since he kind of is their primordial, he can use them to sear others after moving. I really think this is cool. But, I could see dropping this one if we want.)

Too much? I want to play with him right now to find out.

Nomad wrote:OK - I went read through the entire thread. Sounds like you really want to keep some kind of bonding option. What do you think about this?

INFERNIUS

FIRELORD COMMAND
After revealing on Order Marker on this Army Card, instead of taking a turn with Infernius, you may take a turn with one squad or one hero who has the Lava Resistance Special Power. (oh boy, I think we are getting somewhere = Brunak, Golem, Moltenclaw, Obsidians, Shurrak, FE's. Rewording necessary)

Too much? I want to play with him right now to find out.

Firelord Command is interesting.  I was contemplating some synergy with Lava Resistance figures but realized that there could be some big hitters out there.  I'd rather help the Obsidians because of their abysmal D-rating.  And they just collect dust on our shelves so why not get them in the game more.

Bonding isn't a requirement but OM flexibility is pretty important and the other Primordials have had some power around it.  Straight bonding wasn't quite working during play-testing because you could take out Deathstorm/Infernius pretty easily with range since he needs to be close to his troops to use his Aura.

I have been staying away from Searing Intensity because it is a 4th power and I thought we were avoiding too much synergy with Fire Elementals : )

I was going with a different 'Throw' power so that the Obsidians don't go from 1 range up to 5 if they are on a molten lava space.  If you guys are okay keeping it as is - then I'm good with it.  Most games they'll be Range 3 which isn't too broken (though with height they'll be throwing 5 dice).  

It makes them sort of like the Havech Eradicators just costing 10 points more and requiring a Unique Hero.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41650

Thanks for considering my ideas. What do you think of the name suggestion?

I have been staying away from Searing Intensity because it is a 4th power and I thought we were avoiding too much synergy with Fire Elementals : )

I have encouraged and proposed the use of the Fire Elemental's Searing Intensity as a cool synergy for this figure. I wasn't so much for this figure having searing intensity. I wasn't for having this figure bond with two Fire Elementals.

Firelord Command is interesting. I was contemplating some synergy with Lava Resistance figures but realized that there could be some big hitters out there. I'd rather help the Obsidians because of their abysmal D-rating. And they just collect dust on our shelves so why not get them in the game more.

I understand the desire to get those Obsidians on the battlefields. I withdraw the proposed power.

If we are to play test this figure, is this where we are at right now? Let's give him a try.

"Deathstorm" (place holder name)
FIRE PRIMORDIAL

Figure: Deathstorm #41, Justice League: Trinity War, DC HeroClix

General: Utgar
Planet: Grut

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 7
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
100 points

FIRELORD'S FOLLOWERS
After revealing an order marker on the Obsidian Guards or a Fire Elemental you control, instead of taking a turn with that Army Card, you may take a turn with Deathstorm.

LAVA RESISTANT
Deathstorm never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces.

LAVA THROW EMPOWERMENT
Friendly figures with Lava Throw special power that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm may add 3 to their range. If a figure uses Lava Throw Empowerment, they subtract 1 die from their attack.

Yes, those stats look good!

I'll look at the name again .. Deathstorm was starting to grow on me : P

Army Ideas:

# 1
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Guards x3 ... 400
Warden 816 ... 490
Isamu ... 500


# 2
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Guards x3 ... 400
Brunak ... 510


# 3
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Guards x3 ... 400
Iron Golem ... 500

# 4
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Guards x3 ... 400
Krav Maga Agents ... 500

How about dropping Firelord and replacing with:

SCORCHED EARTH
At the end of the round, if there is at least one order marker on this Army Card, each figure adjacent to Deathstorm, must roll one combat die for Scorched Earth damage. Players roll in turn order for their own figures.  If they roll a skull, that figure takes a wound. Otherwise it is safe. Players may choose in what order to roll for their own figures.  Figures with Lava Resistance never roll for damage for Scorched Earth.


This basically makes all hexes around Deathstorm into Lava Field spaces.  Might need some rewording.  Certainly makes him more of a threat to melee and gives you reason to bring him up into the battle on turn 3.  But he can hurt your own figures which is probably why he hangs out with Obsidians and Fire Elementals : )

That sounds like an interesting power that would be worth play-testing. I like the way you worded it straight from the Volcarren Wasteland rule book. Added a couple of caps.

SCORCHED EARTH
At the end of the round, if there is at least one Order Marker on this Army Card, each figure adjacent to Deathstorm, must roll one combat die for Scorched Earth damage. Players roll in turn order for their own figures. If they roll a skull, that figure takes a wound. Otherwise it is safe. Players may choose in what order to roll for their own figures. Figures with Lava Resistance never roll for damage for Scorched Earth.

Deathstorm is a DC comics hero . . . I would rather we named him something else.

Nomad wrote:That sounds like an interesting power that would be worth play-testing. I like the way you worded it straight from the Volcarren Wasteland rule book. Added a couple of caps.

SCORCHED EARTH
At the end of the round, if there is at least one Order Marker on this Army Card, each figure adjacent to Deathstorm, must roll one combat die for Scorched Earth damage. Players roll in turn order for their own figures. If they roll a skull, that figure takes a wound. Otherwise it is safe. Players may choose in what order to roll for their own figures. Figures with Lava Resistance never roll for damage for Scorched Earth.

Deathstorm is a DC comics hero . . . I would rather we named him something else.

Excellent, we'll give this version a whirl in play-testing.

And yeah I know we need a original name : ( My inspiration will spark once he's done.

Ran a play-test today with:
ULLAR
Varinn … 90
Brandis … 180
Kayla Willowsong … 250
Aubrien Archers x3 … 460
Arkmer … 510

Versus

UTGAR
Deathstorm … 100
Obsidian Guards x3 … 400
Brunak … 510

Map used was a slightly modified version of Rigid by Robber, which figures some Lava on the edges but normal stone down the center.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33822

I took notes for the full 4 rounds of this battle, though it was pretty much over after round 1 for the Obsidians.

Highlights:
Round 1 – Obsidians win initiative and move up 4 spaces.  Kayla goes next for Ullar and bonds first with Varinn .. who flanks toward a glyph to the left.  He shoots at Range 7 and rolls 3/3 skulls to kill an OG, then over-extends – reaches the glyph which is Unique Attack + 1 and fires another shot for 3/4 skulls to kill another OG.  With 1 wound he’ll also add +1 to the Aubrien’s frenzy.  Brandis moves up on the right side and with his move 6, range 5 drops a 3/4 attack on another OG and destroys him.  Three attacks, three kills and all the Obsidians that moved up are destroyed.  I was worried that this was a little powerful but it could have easily been 3 attacks by the Krav Maga.
For OM3, Brunak moves up and drops an OG on the highest point in the middle of the board.  The OG is killed by a 1/2 attack by an Aubrien on low ground when I blank 0/5 on defense.

Round 2, OM 3 – the Elves won initiative and on the 3rd OM, the Aubriens get 2 frenzies (one only possible because of Varinn’s wound).  They don’t roll well on the first 2 turns but on turn 3 they all have height and roll 2/3 skulls and kill 3 Obsidians.  At the end of round 2, there are 2 of 9 Obsidians remaining.

Round 3, Kayla has been engaged with Brunak for a few rounds soaking up attacks and has 1 Life remaining.  Brunak has taken 1 wound.  Kayla starts OM1 with her attack from invisibility which gives her an automatic skull and she is boosted to 4 attack by the Unique Attack glyph.  She rolls 2 skulls + 1 auto and Brunak gets 1 shield on 7 dice and is destroyed.  Utgar loses OM 2 and 3 and the rout is pretty much on.

Round 4, the Aubriens are hunting down Deathstorm and they make a Frenzy on a 14 with +2 from Varinn’s over-extend wounds to bring them to a 16.  Deathstorm perishes quickly and didn’t get to use his Aura or Scorched Earth powers.

Analysis:
The Obsidians are really a melee army that could get a little boost to their attack with Deathstorm’s Aura but he really needs to spend a great deal of effort keeping up with them.  Most of this battle, it just didn’t seem possible with Aubrien’s raining down arrows so the match up was not great for the Obsidians.

The Ranger combo was fantastic.  Varinn’s over-extend and Frenzy boost worked well and he’s probably fine “as is” even without Kayla’s bonding.  Brandis got in on the action but without flyers, wasn’t too broken.  Kayla was fun and I risked her a little early to see if the Obsidians could rally but she hung in there against Brunak.
Deathstorm is certainly struggling in the most recent play-test since he lost full bonding with the Obsidians.  Order Marker management is an issue and his Aura is good but his troopers are very slow.  The Knights of Weston are 30 points less than the Obsidians, have one extra member and bond with a lot of great heroes.  If it was Knights against Aubriens, I would have at least been going 4 move against 7 range but 5 figures moving instead of 3.  At least a few would have made it through for possible attacks.  It also hurt that there was water on the board.  I picked Rigid because it had lava but also water – so a boost and a pit-fall for the OG’s.  It only had an affect once (moving through molten lava, and then having to avoid going into water to engage Kayla).

After 2 complete routs (against Nomad and his Jotun and now against all range), I’m thinking that full bonding with Deathstorm might be in order.  The OG’s are just too expensive at 33-points per figure and their water-weakness will hurt on swamp-water boards.  If Deathstorm’s stats have him coming in at 140 points, then basically the OG’s cost around 90-points.  Still more than Horned Skull Brutes.

Might need a re-match before a decide : )

Ran a play-test with:

Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidians x3 ... 400
Warden 816 ... 490

vs

Deltacron x2 ... 140
Omnicron Snipers x3 ... 440
Omni Repulsors x2 .. 520


This was another Ranged army for the Obsidians to face but they faired better on defense this time around. They also benefited from Deathstorm's Lava Throw Enhancement and were hurling fire at Snipers from a Range 4. The Omni's had height, but against 4 attack the odds were fairly even.

The Lava Throw bonus really did help the Obsidians and the +1 Move from the Warden was essential to making this a competitive match. But keeping up with the Omni Snipers at a range 7 was too much. It was also just not efficient to spend 190 points to boost 300 points of Obsidians.

The Scorched Earth power only came up once - and it did put a wound on a Deltacron - but otherwise didn't come into play.

--

I keep coming back to the Obsidians being too over-priced. I'd like them to be competitive so maybe Deathstorm bonds with them as his 3rd power. Might need a little more re-design .. but that is what play-testing is for : P

Okay, I am thinking that Deathstorm needs something extra and instead of going with a 4th power - I decided to make a Unique Squad that can support him : )



I have two sets of these Heroclix Fragments of Phoenix.  They are very inexpensive but I can cover 2 Unique Squads with what I have so I can share.

First pass at powers for them:

Name: OBSIDIAN WYLDFIRE

General:  Utgar
Unique Squad
Species: Elemental
Class: Guards
Personality: Mindless
Large 5

Life: 1
Move: 4
Range: 5
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
90 points

ETERNAL FLAME
When an Obsidian Wyldfire is destroyed, you may place it on a Unique Hero’s Army Card with the Lava Resistant special power.  After taking a turn with a Unique Hero that has an Obsidian Wyldfire, you may roll the 20-sided die.  If the Unique Hero is on molten lava space, add 5 to your roll.  If you roll a 13 or higher, place an Obsidian Wyldfire from this Army Card on a space adjacent to that Unique Hero.

LAVA MASTERY
When an Obsidian Wyldfire is on a molten lava space, add 2 to its Range, Attack and Defense.  When an Obsidian Wyldfire is on a lava field space, add 1 to its Attack and Defense.

LAVA RESISTANT
Obsidian Wyldfires never roll for molten lava damage or lava field damage and do not have to stop in molten lava spaces.    

--

Then I need to update Deathstorm to likely give him bonding with them.


Update: found these at Troll & Toad for $1 each so I went ahead and ordered enough to own 6 squads - as I am considering going with them as a common squad. I'll pass along a full squad to the Schafte Brothers.

Deathstorm:

FIRELORD BONDING
After revealing an order marker on a Common squad you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, before taking a turn with that squad, you may first take a turn with Deathstorm.

FORGED WITH SOULFIRE
Before taking a turn with Deathstorm, you may place a wound marker on Deathstorm, or another Unique Hero you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, to then place one of your previously destroyed Common figures that has the Lava Resistant special power on an empty space with 3 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm.


LAVA THROW ENHANCEMENT

LAVA RESISTANT

Sounds really cool. I have taken the liberty of putting it all in one post. I have reworded the new powers a bit - what do you think? Also, can we start a new thread for the Obsidian Wyldfires? They sound pretty cool as well.

"Deathstorm" (place holder name)
FIRE PRIMORDIAL

Figure: Deathstorm #41, Justice League: Trinity War, DC HeroClix

General: Utgar
Planet: Grut

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 7
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
100 points

FIRELORD BONDING
After revealing an Order Marker on a Common Squad you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, before taking a turn with that squad, you may first take a turn with Deathstorm.

FORGED WITH SOULFIRE
Before taking a turn with Deathstorm, you may place a Wound Marker on Deathstorm or another Unique Hero you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, and place one of your previously destroyed Common Squad figures that has the Lava Resistant special power on an empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm.

LAVA THROW EMPOWERMENT
Friendly figures with Lava Throw special power that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm may add 3 to their range. If a figure uses Lava Throw Empowerment, they subtract 1 die from their attack.

LAVA RESISTANT
Deathstorm never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces.

Thanks for combining the posts. I've been bouncing between meetings with ideas running through my head - so I'm using posts sort of like Post-It notes to remember my ideas/brainstorms : P

Power name tweaks.


"Deathstorm" (place holder name)
FIRE PRIMORDIAL

Figure: Deathstorm #41, Justice League: Trinity War, DC HeroClix

General: Utgar
Planet: Grut

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 7
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
100 points

FIRELORD BONDING
After revealing an Order Marker on a Common Squad you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, before taking a turn with that squad, you may first take a turn with Deathstorm.

PROMETHEAN FIRE
Before taking a turn with Deathstorm, you may place a Wound Marker on Deathstorm or another Unique Hero you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, and place one of your previously destroyed Common Squad figures that has the Lava Resistant special power on an empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm.

LAVA CREATURE ENHANCEMENT
Friendly squad figures with Lava Throw or Firestorm special power that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm may add 3 to their range.

LAVA RESISTANT
Deathstorm never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces.
--

Squad:
https://crypticalliance.forumotion.com/t160-w4-obsidian-wyldfire-brainstorming

--

Army Ideas:

# 1 - GUARDS
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Guards x 3 ... 400
Brunak ... 510
= 510

# 2 - PROMETHEAN
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Wyldfires x4 ... 340
Shurrak ... 160
= 500

# 3 - MIXED FIRE
Deathstorm ... 100
Obsidian Guards x2 ... 300
Obsidian Wyldfires x3 ... 480
Isamu ... 490
= 490

"Deathstorm" (place holder name)
FIRE PRIMORDIAL

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 7
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
100 points

PROMETHEAN FIRE
Before taking a turn with Deathstorm, you may place a Wound Marker on Deathstorm or another Unique Hero you control that has the Lava Resistant special power, and place one of your previously destroyed Common Squad figures that has the Lava Resistant special power on an empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm.

LAVA CREATURE ENHANCEMENT
Friendly squad figures with Lava Throw or Firestorm special power that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Deathstorm may add 3 to their range.

LAVA RESISTANT
Deathstorm never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces.
--

Squad:
https://crypticalliance.forumotion.com/t160-w4-obsidian-wyldfire-brainstorming

--

Dropping Firelord Bonding from this Unique Hero and moving to the Squad.

Dropping Firelord Bonding from this Unique Hero and moving to the Squad. wrote:

Are you sure? The Obsidian Guards won't be able to bond with him now. I wouldn't mind keeping that as an option.

Nomad wrote:

Are you sure? The Obsidian Guards won't be able to bond with him now. I wouldn't mind keeping that as an option.

I am working on an alternate card for the OG's to give them bonding : P


OBSIDIAN GUARDS
Utgar

Species: Moltarn
Common Squad
Class: Guards
Personality: Ferocious
Medium 5

Life: 1
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
75 points

FIRELORD BONDING
Before taking a turn with the Obsidian Guards, you may first take a turn with any Hero you control that has the Lava Resistant special power.

LAVA RESISTANT
Obsidian Guards never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage, and they do not have to stop on molten lava spaces.

LAVA THROW
When an Obsidian Guard is on a molten lava space it may add 3 to its range.

MOLTARN MASTERY
While an Obsidian Guard is on a molten lava or lava field space, add 1 to its Attack and Defense.

Hmm. I am not sure if I want to go down the path of tweaking official cards. I'm sure we can find a way to make a NWHC that will bump them up. If not Deathstorm, then maybe something else.

Like a repaint of a Greater Ice Elemental. Maybe the Greater Lava Elemental could bump the move of the Obsidian Guards and, at the end of each round, roll for a rebirth of an Obsidian (kind of like the Hive).

This brainstorming stuff is fun.