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    W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:28 pm


    Alright ... changing the name to "Whisper Scout." It's weird, I know .. but you have to read the Bio to get where it comes from : P
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:49 am

    Tweaked some wording.

    Updated OP with the latest and greatest stats.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:49 pm

    Looks good. I like Saar Whisper Scout.

    Kai wrote:Updated OP with the latest and greatest stats.
    As far as I can tell, the powers and stats didn't change. If they did, let me know what changed. As I said before, 55-60 points sounds about right if the stats/points are the same.

    Do we need more play testing or can we move to final editing?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:24 am

    The OP has the scout at 55 points.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:19 pm

    Yes, I got that the points were changed to 55, but I didn't notice any changes in the stats/powers.

    Do we need more play testing or can we move to final editing?
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:23 pm

    after a PT with the Minotaurs I am hoping to get one in with these guys. Might not be until tomorrow.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:19 pm

    I know we haven't finalized the Whisper Scout, but I got a head start on the card:


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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:22 pm

    Card looks good. The picture is a little dark. If you want, I can take another pic with white background.


    And Sorry I left a "the" out of this power.

    ADVANCED SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Whisper Scout you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Whisper Scout.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:41 pm

    The pic was done with a white background in daylight. It is a dark figure with a dark Aquilla background. Please do try another pic, you may need to use a flash.

    Thanks!
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:34 pm

    Better yet, I can just lighten the image of the scout. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Let me give it a shot to see what you think.

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:34 pm

    Here it is. Any lighter and it starts to wash out.

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:40 pm

    Are capes generally non hit zones, I thought they were otherwise to hard to target from the back side. That and the missing the are 2 thoughts I have.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:34 am

    Good point on the "cloak" hitzone.

    Cyprien, Sonya, and Iskra have cloaks as Hit Zones. I looked at Valguard and his big cloak is hitable as well.

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:39 pm

    Almost all of them are hittable - except for a couple that were errors. I'll fix it.

    Kai, what did you think about the lighter version of the scout?

    Yes - I will fix the text. I just wanted to see if the figure was light enough.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:46 pm

    Nomad wrote:

    Kai, what did you think about the lighter version of the scout?

    I think I like the darker one better.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:15 pm

    I wouldn't seeing a better picture. Of which, I will try and get some better ones of the minotaurs tonight Damon.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:28 am

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Whisper Scout

    THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.

    The Advanced spotter power is appropriate and fits. I love the recon team bonding power but am not sure why they can’t use it if they kill a figure, they can use it if they wound a figure- so I am not completely sold on theme here.


    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?

    Very fun. Makes some border line characters extremely dangerous.



    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?

    The unit was very good to play against and with, the opposite of annoying.


    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?

    Both were used numerous times.

    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?

    Trying to keep them unengaged. Using them against figures you wouldn’t kill so you could Recon team bond. All of it good.


    BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?

    The after revealing an Order Marker part squashes any bonding loops that I could see.


    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
    Zetacron, Deadeye Dan, and Kira are the units I see bonding with for hero bonding. The Whisper scouts helps the Mohican River Tribe, Kira, and Zetacron with additional attack die and Deadeye Dan with 20 sided roll. All these characters are OK with a bit of a boost, although Zetacron and Deadeye (especially Zetacron) become pretty dangerous.


    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.

    Zetacron with certain bonuses and Deadeye with +20 sider rolls are pushing the envelope for a bonding figure.



    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?

    At 55 points I would definitely try and fit a couple in with Deadeye or Zetacron, and even the Mohicans.


    MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?

    Not that I see.



    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
    [They performed decently. Zetacron really benefitted (Dan not so much). The Mohicans didn’t get to utilize the extra attack die (or I missed a couple I think). I don’t think 55 is unreasonable. The fast moving nagrubs tied them down a couple of times and put more than expected wounds on them.]


    Map: [Steaming Bridge Revisited]
    Units: Army 1: [Whisper Scoutx4 (220), Zetacron (60), Deadeye Dan (60), MRTx3 (210)] ([550]) VS Army 2: [Torkulna, Subakna, Nagrubsx4, Marro Warrior] ([550])

    Rd 1- MRT split 3 ways to road, Nagrubs follow strategy, Torkulna moves to middle. MRT kills a Nagrub, Tork whiffs defense for 2 wounds. A Nagrub blocked by a MRT. Whisper Scout blocked by Torkulna on height, Dan misses with Ullar Enhanced Rifle. Torkulna eats a Nagrub, tramples a MRT on bridge, a Nagrub ties up a Whisper Scout but misses.

    RD 2- Whisper Scout 1 wounds Torkulna who whiffs, Zetacron (W.S.) 1 wounds Torkulna(hgt) 4 sk to 3 sh. Torkulna eats a Nagrub, tramples a Whisper Scout and adds 1 wound with attack, Nagrubs move up to Torkulna. Whisper Scout puts 2 more wounds on a whiffing Torkulna, then Zetacron (3 die) whiffs on Torkulna. Torkulna tramples Whisper Scout for kill, moves away from enemies and tramples stray MRT. 2 MRT move towards glyph, 3rd towards Torkulna. Torkulna eats a Nagrub, kills a MRT, Nagrub moves on to a dud glyph, 1 moves next to Torkulna, 3rd (hgt)misses a Whisper Scout.
    Nagrub dies on Lava

    Rd 3- Whisper Scout moves to height for 2 wounds on Torkulna who whiffs again, Zetacron with bonus kills Torkulna. Subakna moves out with 2 Nagrubs, 3rd (hgt) ties down Zetacron and Whisper Scout, putting 1 wound on Zetacron. Whisper Scout kills Nagrub (hgt) tying down Zetacron & Whisper Scout. Subakna moves to height on lava, Nagrubs follow and move from glyph. 3 MRT move out of start zone towards center bridge. Subakna (hgt) kills Zetacron, 2 of 3 Nagrubs cuddle up to Subakna.

    Rd 4- Subakna kills a Whisper Scout who whiffs defense, Nagrubs keep figures from gaining adjacency to Subakna. Whisper Scout blocked by Subakna, Deadeye misses sharpshooter with 16 roll. Subakna moves to high lava & attacks Whisper Scout for 2 wounds, 1 Nagrub moves adjacent to Subakna, 1 ties down to MRT, 1 ties down Whisper Scout and MRT, killing a MRT and 1 wounding a Whisper Scout in the process. MRT (hgt) kills a Nagrub, 2 MRT put 1 wound on Subakna. Subakna snacks, kills a Whisper Scout, a Nagrub puts 1 wound on a Whisper Scout. Turn 3 lost for MRT army.
    Subakna & 2 MRT safe from Lava damage.

    Rd 5- Subakna gets a MRT, 2 Nagrubs move up, 3rd blocked by a Whisper Scout. MRT kill a Nagrub, blocked by Subakna on height. Subakna (hgt) kills a MRT, 2 Nagrubs miss their attacks on MRT. MRT (adjacent) puts wound on Subakna, 2 from range are blocked. Subakna eats a Nagrub, kills a MRT, a Nagrub misses Deadeye. 2 MRT get adjacent to Subakna for 1 wound.
    Subakna safe, MRT dies on Lava

    Rd 6- Subakna kills a MRT, Nagrub (hgt) blocked by Dan. Whisper Scout misses Subakna, Deadeye rolls a 19 to kill Subakna. 2 Nagrubs (hgt) put 2 wounds on Deadeye. Whisper Scout (hgt) kills a nagrub. Nagrub whiffs on Dan. Whisper Scout kills last Nagrub.

    Rd 7- Marro Warrior w/ 1 skull kills last Whisper Scout (height) who had all the order markers. Marro Warriors get Deadeye.

    4 Marro Warriors left.


    Final thoughts- Very close game. The Whisper Scouts were very fun to play. 2 questions.

    1) Do we need to state normal attack in the Advanced Spotter power. Special attacks cannot be modified?
    2) Is it supposed to be unengaged Whisper Scout for the sniper 20-sided roll like the +1 attack die?

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:33 pm

    NICE Battle Report! And Go Deadeye with the Su-Bak-Na slaying!!!


    1) Do we need to state normal attack in the Advanced Spotter power. Special attacks cannot be modified?

    The current version does state the bonus is only for Normal attacks against non-adjacent targets.


    2) Is it supposed to be unengaged Whisper Scout for the sniper 20-sided roll like the +1 attack die?

    It does not state that you must be unengaged for the d20 bonus. We could modify that.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:27 pm

    1) Do we need to state normal attack in the Advanced Spotter power. Special attacks cannot be modified?

    The current version does state the bonus is only for Normal attacks against non-adjacent targets.
    Yes, does the wording need to be included? I think it is extra verbage.


    2) Is it supposed to be unengaged Whisper Scout for the sniper 20-sided roll like the +1 attack die?

    It does not state that you must be unengaged for the d20 bonus. We could modify that.
    It doesn't matter to me one way or another. It just seems odd they have to be unengaged for 1 part but not the other.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:08 am

    I think

    ADVANCED SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Whisper Scout you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly Whisper Scout.
    could be

    If a Scout figure attacks a non-adjacent figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an Unengaged Whisper Scout you control, that Scout figure may roll 1 additional attack die.  When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly (unengaged) Whisper Scout.

    Not sure if you want to add unengaged to the 2nd part or not.

    I'm editing this because I don't think your Scout or Sniper should get the bonus from a friendly figure, but that the person having the Whisper Scout should give the bonus to a friendly Scout or Sniper

    All friendly Scout figures that attack a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an Unengaged Whisper Scout roll 1 additional attack die. All friendly Sniper figures that choose a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of a(n unengaged) Whisper Scout for a special power may add 1 to their 20-sided die roll.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Nomad on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:02 pm

    Excellent report! Thanks, Derek. Makes me want to battle right now.

    It seems to me, thematically, that the Whisper Scout could still telepathically aid friendly scouts and snipers while engaged.

    Would it change game play? The Whisper Scout would still not want to engage, but could provide a screen if needed and maybe get that extra space closer to a big target you want to aid a Sniper with. But, for the opponent, being able to engage a Whisperer has a big advantage of reducing their value and is a goal in and of itself.

    Does it change the value? 5 points max, in my opinion.

    My vote, if we want to keep the two powers simpler and consistent, would be to make both powers require that the Whisper Scout is unengaged. It just seems to add a slight bump to more complex game play on both sides.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:53 am


    If a Scout figure attacks a non-adjacent figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an Unengaged Whisper Scout you control, that Scout figure may roll 1 additional attack die. When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly (unengaged) Whisper Scout.



    I am okay adding "unengaged" to the Sniper d20 bonus : )

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Derek S on Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:03 am

    Kai wrote:
    If a Scout figure attacks a non-adjacent figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an Unengaged Whisper Scout you control, that Scout figure may roll 1 additional attack die. When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly (unengaged) Whisper Scout.

    I am okay adding "unengaged" to the Sniper d20 bonus : )
    I still have a problem with the blue part. I can't think of a card that you get a bonus via another card rather than that card specifically giving the bonus. In the first part the unengaged whisper scout you control gives the bonus, in the blue wording if you have a sniper it gets the bonus from a whisper scout. Splitting hairs as they both have the same result, but the whisper scout should be the one giving the bonus.

    so, I think this wording is better;

    All friendly Scout figures that attack a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an Unengaged Whisper Scout roll 1 additional attack die. All friendly Sniper figures that choose a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an unengaged Whisper Scout for a special power may add 1 to their 20-sided die roll.

    I think Concan best represents the wording, maybe somebody could come up with something better.


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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:59 am

    This is what's on the card now:
    ADVANCED SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Whisper Scout you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of a friendly (unengaged) Whisper Scout.


    We need to keep the Normal Attack and Non-adjacent parts of the power in.  And "at least one" so that the bonus does not stack with multiple Whisperers. And add the Unengaged part to the d20.

    We can reword it, but I think it needs to have those components. I'll see about rewording it - and having the Unengaged part be at the beginning so it isn't stated twice. Everyone okay with it being "Friendly" scout instead of "you control."


    And I am totally fine dropping the d20 Sniper part.  It only helps Deadeye Dan, so it is a little bit of an after-thought ... but he's a D rated figure, so why not, right?  And Dan does benefit from the Recon bonding either way.

    I drew the influence for this figure from the SHIELD Spotter ... since Damon beat me up in C3G with them once.  BLAM!
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Saar Whisper Scout - Released

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:39 pm

    Thoughts on this language?

    ADVANCED SPOTTER
    When a Scout figure you control attacks a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack, you may add 1 attack die if there is at least one unengaged Whisper Scout you control within 6 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure.  When a Sniper you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to your roll if the figure chosen for the special power is within 6 clear sight spaces of an unengaged Whisper Scout you control.

    ADVANCED SPOTTER (Concan style):
    All friendly Scout figures that attack a non-adjacent figure, with a normal attack, who is within 6 clear sight spaces of an Unengaged Whisper Scout, roll 1 additional attack die. All friendly Sniper figures that choose a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of an unengaged Whisper Scout for a special power may add 1 to their 20-sided die roll.

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