We could maybe turn one of the Axes into a Spear - but we want to keep Axes for everyone, sounds like we are doing some painting : )
3 posters
W1 Minotaurs of Nullondia-Released
Lord Kai- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-05-26
Location : Seattle
We could maybe turn one of the Axes into a Spear - but we want to keep Axes for everyone, sounds like we are doing some painting : )
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
I don't really need any as I hope to to fill out with the original ones. However, if everyone ends up with enough to have their desired amount of squads and there are leftovers I will gladly repaint those to look like the figure I still need 3 of. I think these guys will work best on the 40mm round base as well.
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
They would fit easily on the smaller bases . . . the footprint of the figure is pretty small.
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Minotaurs Common Squad
When play-testing, from the OP I chose Large 6, 4 Defense, and Minotaur Hero bonding option. The rest was as is in the OP.
THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects. They should affect destructible objects. The special powers are right on with sculpt and fitting of minotaurs.
FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play? Yes - tough guy melee squads are in my wheelhouse! I think the option of heroes down the line make them potentially funner.
FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying? Attacking a common figure who has height which gives a defense of 5 was annoying for a while, but that is where these guys are tough. Setting up figures to avoid a potential Gore was considered early, but didn't make much of an issue overall. Not annoying ultimately because the opposition won.
USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable? Yes, all powers were used (except for the Bonding), although Gore was pretty difficult to pull the trigger on but was awesome the one time I used it. The Scent of the Prey was used at least 10 times.
STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game? Lots of strategy as to where you place them - considering the Gore factor. Tough melee squad that can withstand some attics. No real new tactics . . . charge a ahead, get height, don't worry too much about low attack ranged squads (which is nice).
BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately? No bonding options as of yet given my choice of Minotaur Hero Bonding, which we don't have any as of yet. I don't see any issues in the future unless we make it Beast Bonding or something . . .
SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak? No synergies to consider at this point that would break the game. Will have to wait for the heroes.
POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Nope - all good here . . . getting Move +2 was pretty sweet for the one time I tried the Gore power.
DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting? Yes - to accompany a non-synergy hero. But it will be even more-so when the Minotaur heroes are in play.
MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game? None
ARMY TEST 1
Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. [insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary] Preformed pretty well in my opinion and with a Hero to bond to, it should perform better. I like the 90 point value for these guys. Gore is really quite difficult to want to attempt to pull off unless you are up against a high defense hero. I could have Gored a number of times, but gave up the opportunity of rolling an 12 or higher (with the move) because I didn't want to risk losing the attack. As I look at other 90 point squads like the Hounds (who have plague) and the Eradicators (who have range and are also 4x4) I think the Minotaurs fall a little short . . . unless you want to consider the Gorillinators, but let's not. The big change will be the inclusion of a hero that they bond with, which will make up for the high cost of the 90 points. With out the bonding, these guys would probably be 70-75 points in my opinion so far (it has only been one play test).
Map: Sirocco
Units:
Army 1: Minotaur Common Squad x4, Rachiem = 500 points
VS
Army 2: Tor-Kul-Na, Nagrubs x3, Stingers x3, Isamu = 500 points
Rd 1. Both armies split to height on the two sides of the map with Minotaurs and Stingers. Stingers killed two Mins despite the defensive glyph. Mins fail on their one attack. At the end of the round, Stingers held both the move+2 and def+1 glyphs.
Rd 2. Mins won initiative and promptly wasted 2 Stingers. Stingers failed in their attacks. The Minotaurs axed through 3 Stingers, including the one on the def. glyph. Stingers shot back and killed 2 Mins. Mins take move glyph, who was immediately killed by a Stinger to close the round.
Rd 3. Mins take out a Stinger and 2 move out from the start zone. Mins defend successfully against 3 Stinger attacks. Mins kill 2 more Stingers, but not the last Stinger on def+1 glyph. The last Stinger whiffs. On OM#3, the last Stinger falls to the Mins, they grab the move +2 glyph, and then Tork and Grubs move out toward the right side and the def+1 glyph. It took the lives of 5 Mins to kill the 9 Stingers in head to head OMs, plus the Mins have the map, although only 1 remains on the right side of the map where the def+1 glyph is.
Rd 4. Grubs win initiative, which allows Tork to slam a 6/7 skulls attack on the last Min on the right side, a Grub follows to grab the def+1 glyph. Mins decide not to pursue Tork, probably due to fear. A couple sprint into into Grubs start zone from the middle of the board with their move of 8 (5 + 2 glyph + 1 Scent of Prey) and kill a couple. Tork back tracks into start zone and kills a Min. Three Grubs attack another Min, but fail. Mins kill a Grub. Tork kills a Min. And then . . . with a potential move of 8, a Min lines himself up to take a straight line shot at Tork . . . but they must win initiative!
Rd 5. 16-1, Minotaurs win Initiative! And then the Gore occurs . . . a move of 8 in a straight line = I only need a 6 or higher to get a wound on Tork. I roll a 9, Tork is wounded. Major moral booster there. A Min kills the Grub on +1 attack. Two attacks on Tork follow but I only roll 2/8 skulls and Tork defends against them both. Major moral squelch. Tork can't Trample large figures by the way . . . but he kills one and the Grubs kill another, still in the Grubs start zone. 2 Mins are left - no results. Tork moves toward the move+2 glyph, while a Grub takes out a Min with 1 skull, yes, the Min whiffed with 4 def dice. The last Min leaves the glyph and kills a Grub.
Rd 6. Tork fails in his attack on the last Min, a Grub retakes the def+1 glyph. Min fails in attack on Tork. Tork rolls 5/6 skulls and kills the last Minotaur. Another Grub grabs the move+2 glyph. OM#2 is gone for Mins. Tork moves 8 spaces down the mountain into Mins start zone to attack Rachiem and rolls 3/6 skulls for 3 wounds - yes, Rach whiffed. Rach tripled attacked Tork, rolling 7/9 skulls! But Tork rolled 3/6 on each defensive roll to defend.
Rd 7. Rach triple attack = 2/9 skulls (I think he felt defeated) for now wound on Tork. Tork finished off Rach with a nice attack.
Final Score = Minotaurs 0, Team Tork 250 (2 grubs and Isamu plus a full life Tor-Kul-Na).
Final thoughts: Love me some Minotaurs! I would make them 4x4 without a doubt. Points at 90 seem about right if they get their Bonding down the line. On their own . . . I see them closer to 70-75 points. Large 6 seems the best option to me. Gore is very tricky . . . do I use it against a 3 def Stinger when I have to roll an 11 or 12 or higher (after their move) and possibly lose my chance at an attack - "Nope, I'll take my 4 attack dice odds." I think we do have to make it clear in the Gore power it is from where they start their move . . . they can't back up one and then charge, which I don't really see working (I'll explain if it was intended for this to be possible). Gore is hard to pull off, I would suggest it be dropped down to 12 or higher, so that a move of 2 gives you 50/50 odds at a wound. For a ninety point squad, that seems reasonable to me. A move of 8 like I pulled off? Then it should be pretty much a sure thing.
Scent of Prey is an excellent power and I used 10+ times to be able to engage a figure.
Just my 2 cents. I love these guys and I think they are nearly perfect out of the shoot. They will really benefit from Minotaur heroes. I will wait to play test more battles until the final powers/stats are more finalized (size, def, bonding option from OP, and any change in Gore if warranted).
When play-testing, from the OP I chose Large 6, 4 Defense, and Minotaur Hero bonding option. The rest was as is in the OP.
THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects. They should affect destructible objects. The special powers are right on with sculpt and fitting of minotaurs.
FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play? Yes - tough guy melee squads are in my wheelhouse! I think the option of heroes down the line make them potentially funner.
FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying? Attacking a common figure who has height which gives a defense of 5 was annoying for a while, but that is where these guys are tough. Setting up figures to avoid a potential Gore was considered early, but didn't make much of an issue overall. Not annoying ultimately because the opposition won.
USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable? Yes, all powers were used (except for the Bonding), although Gore was pretty difficult to pull the trigger on but was awesome the one time I used it. The Scent of the Prey was used at least 10 times.
STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game? Lots of strategy as to where you place them - considering the Gore factor. Tough melee squad that can withstand some attics. No real new tactics . . . charge a ahead, get height, don't worry too much about low attack ranged squads (which is nice).
BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately? No bonding options as of yet given my choice of Minotaur Hero Bonding, which we don't have any as of yet. I don't see any issues in the future unless we make it Beast Bonding or something . . .
SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak? No synergies to consider at this point that would break the game. Will have to wait for the heroes.
POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Nope - all good here . . . getting Move +2 was pretty sweet for the one time I tried the Gore power.
DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting? Yes - to accompany a non-synergy hero. But it will be even more-so when the Minotaur heroes are in play.
MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game? None
ARMY TEST 1
Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. [insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary] Preformed pretty well in my opinion and with a Hero to bond to, it should perform better. I like the 90 point value for these guys. Gore is really quite difficult to want to attempt to pull off unless you are up against a high defense hero. I could have Gored a number of times, but gave up the opportunity of rolling an 12 or higher (with the move) because I didn't want to risk losing the attack. As I look at other 90 point squads like the Hounds (who have plague) and the Eradicators (who have range and are also 4x4) I think the Minotaurs fall a little short . . . unless you want to consider the Gorillinators, but let's not. The big change will be the inclusion of a hero that they bond with, which will make up for the high cost of the 90 points. With out the bonding, these guys would probably be 70-75 points in my opinion so far (it has only been one play test).
Map: Sirocco
Units:
Army 1: Minotaur Common Squad x4, Rachiem = 500 points
VS
Army 2: Tor-Kul-Na, Nagrubs x3, Stingers x3, Isamu = 500 points
Rd 1. Both armies split to height on the two sides of the map with Minotaurs and Stingers. Stingers killed two Mins despite the defensive glyph. Mins fail on their one attack. At the end of the round, Stingers held both the move+2 and def+1 glyphs.
Rd 2. Mins won initiative and promptly wasted 2 Stingers. Stingers failed in their attacks. The Minotaurs axed through 3 Stingers, including the one on the def. glyph. Stingers shot back and killed 2 Mins. Mins take move glyph, who was immediately killed by a Stinger to close the round.
Rd 3. Mins take out a Stinger and 2 move out from the start zone. Mins defend successfully against 3 Stinger attacks. Mins kill 2 more Stingers, but not the last Stinger on def+1 glyph. The last Stinger whiffs. On OM#3, the last Stinger falls to the Mins, they grab the move +2 glyph, and then Tork and Grubs move out toward the right side and the def+1 glyph. It took the lives of 5 Mins to kill the 9 Stingers in head to head OMs, plus the Mins have the map, although only 1 remains on the right side of the map where the def+1 glyph is.
Rd 4. Grubs win initiative, which allows Tork to slam a 6/7 skulls attack on the last Min on the right side, a Grub follows to grab the def+1 glyph. Mins decide not to pursue Tork, probably due to fear. A couple sprint into into Grubs start zone from the middle of the board with their move of 8 (5 + 2 glyph + 1 Scent of Prey) and kill a couple. Tork back tracks into start zone and kills a Min. Three Grubs attack another Min, but fail. Mins kill a Grub. Tork kills a Min. And then . . . with a potential move of 8, a Min lines himself up to take a straight line shot at Tork . . . but they must win initiative!
Rd 5. 16-1, Minotaurs win Initiative! And then the Gore occurs . . . a move of 8 in a straight line = I only need a 6 or higher to get a wound on Tork. I roll a 9, Tork is wounded. Major moral booster there. A Min kills the Grub on +1 attack. Two attacks on Tork follow but I only roll 2/8 skulls and Tork defends against them both. Major moral squelch. Tork can't Trample large figures by the way . . . but he kills one and the Grubs kill another, still in the Grubs start zone. 2 Mins are left - no results. Tork moves toward the move+2 glyph, while a Grub takes out a Min with 1 skull, yes, the Min whiffed with 4 def dice. The last Min leaves the glyph and kills a Grub.
Rd 6. Tork fails in his attack on the last Min, a Grub retakes the def+1 glyph. Min fails in attack on Tork. Tork rolls 5/6 skulls and kills the last Minotaur. Another Grub grabs the move+2 glyph. OM#2 is gone for Mins. Tork moves 8 spaces down the mountain into Mins start zone to attack Rachiem and rolls 3/6 skulls for 3 wounds - yes, Rach whiffed. Rach tripled attacked Tork, rolling 7/9 skulls! But Tork rolled 3/6 on each defensive roll to defend.
Rd 7. Rach triple attack = 2/9 skulls (I think he felt defeated) for now wound on Tork. Tork finished off Rach with a nice attack.
Final Score = Minotaurs 0, Team Tork 250 (2 grubs and Isamu plus a full life Tor-Kul-Na).
Final thoughts: Love me some Minotaurs! I would make them 4x4 without a doubt. Points at 90 seem about right if they get their Bonding down the line. On their own . . . I see them closer to 70-75 points. Large 6 seems the best option to me. Gore is very tricky . . . do I use it against a 3 def Stinger when I have to roll an 11 or 12 or higher (after their move) and possibly lose my chance at an attack - "Nope, I'll take my 4 attack dice odds." I think we do have to make it clear in the Gore power it is from where they start their move . . . they can't back up one and then charge, which I don't really see working (I'll explain if it was intended for this to be possible). Gore is hard to pull off, I would suggest it be dropped down to 12 or higher, so that a move of 2 gives you 50/50 odds at a wound. For a ninety point squad, that seems reasonable to me. A move of 8 like I pulled off? Then it should be pretty much a sure thing.
Scent of Prey is an excellent power and I used 10+ times to be able to engage a figure.
Just my 2 cents. I love these guys and I think they are nearly perfect out of the shoot. They will really benefit from Minotaur heroes. I will wait to play test more battles until the final powers/stats are more finalized (size, def, bonding option from OP, and any change in Gore if warranted).
Lord Kai- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-05-26
Location : Seattle
Nice report!
Maybe the Minotaur hero can be like Su-Bak-Na's "Hive Supremcy" and add + 1 to the Minotaur d20 rolls.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
I can definitely see one of the minotaur heros doing that, perhaps the shaman.Kai wrote:Maybe the Minotaur hero can be like Su-Bak-Na's "Hive Supremcy" and add + 1 to the Minotaur d20 rolls.
Thanks for the playtest! I'll take a closer look at that info tomorrow.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
The intent is they cannot move back a couple of spaces and then move toward the target. Have to work on the wording there to make sure it is clear. The 14 for Gore was because of the +1 move for scent, potential +2 move glyph, and with thoughts for a hero that could reduce the roll. I didn't want for it to become to easy to decide to use. We can take a closer look at this and reduce after we get some more playtests in if needed. Thanks for the playtest.
Lord Kai- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-05-26
Location : Seattle
What about adding "forward" to the Gore ...
At 90-points to compare to the Marrden Hounds - the Hounds can make an attack of 3 and also roll the d20 for every figure adjacent to them to inflict a wound (though it doesn't work on Soulborgs). Using this as a guide, would you allow a Gore + normal attack?
Gore
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. Move a Minotaur of Saaddule forward in a straight line, if they end their movement engaged you may roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure receives a wound. For each space moved you may add 1 to the die roll. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, they may not attack this turn.
At 90-points to compare to the Marrden Hounds - the Hounds can make an attack of 3 and also roll the d20 for every figure adjacent to them to inflict a wound (though it doesn't work on Soulborgs). Using this as a guide, would you allow a Gore + normal attack?
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
Gore
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. Move a Minotaur of Saaddule in a straight line, if they end their movement engaged you may roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure receives a wound. For each space moved you may add 1 to the die roll. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, they may not attack this turn.
How about
Gore
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. Move a Minotaur of Saaddule in a straight line, if they end their movement engaged you may roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure receives a wound. You may add one to your die for each space between the defending figure and the Minotaur of Saadules original platcement. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, they may not attack this turn.
As for the size, they look like large- pretty much the same size as the Wolfen, but I don't think they should get the benefits of being large, so I am inclined to make them Medium. Thoughts?
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. Move a Minotaur of Saaddule in a straight line, if they end their movement engaged you may roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure receives a wound. For each space moved you may add 1 to the die roll. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, they may not attack this turn.
How about
Gore
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. Move a Minotaur of Saaddule in a straight line, if they end their movement engaged you may roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure receives a wound. You may add one to your die for each space between the defending figure and the Minotaur of Saadules original platcement. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, they may not attack this turn.
I think the potential is there for the roll to get pretty low with move + eventual hero that reduces roll so I am inclined to keep it is at stands for the moment. After some PTing this might change. I kind of like the feel that the Minotaur gets disoriented a bit if they fail to gore.Using this as a guide, would you allow a Gore + normal attack?
As for the size, they look like large- pretty much the same size as the Wolfen, but I don't think they should get the benefits of being large, so I am inclined to make them Medium. Thoughts?
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
GORE
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. To use Gore, move the Minotaur of Saaddule in a straight line. If the Minotaur of Saaddule ends his movement engaged or next to a destructible object you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure or destructible object receives a wound. You may add one to your die roll for each space between the defending figure and the Minotaur of Saadule's original placement. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, he may not attack this turn.
I took the liberty to suggest a few tweaks to the wording of Gore. I think the sentence you added clarifies the die roll bonus.
I would like to keep them as large - they are quite large. Some of the added benefits they would receive if they are large is that they can't be thrown, talon grabbed, knocked back, they get to bypass a swirling vortex, Torin can't battleaxe them, no chain grab, no chomp, Templars don't get to dismiss the rabble, and . . .
On the minus side, they don't get to use Torin's Evil Eye, they can't be carried, and they can't climb ladders (which is a big deal, but fitting for a minotaur).
I still vote large - they make medium figures look like wimps.
If a Minotaur of Saaddule starts his movement unengaged, you may use Gore. To use Gore, move the Minotaur of Saaddule in a straight line. If the Minotaur of Saaddule ends his movement engaged or next to a destructible object you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher the defending figure or destructible object receives a wound. You may add one to your die roll for each space between the defending figure and the Minotaur of Saadule's original placement. If a Minotaur of Saaddule fails to inflict a wound with Gore, he may not attack this turn.
I took the liberty to suggest a few tweaks to the wording of Gore. I think the sentence you added clarifies the die roll bonus.
I would like to keep them as large - they are quite large. Some of the added benefits they would receive if they are large is that they can't be thrown, talon grabbed, knocked back, they get to bypass a swirling vortex, Torin can't battleaxe them, no chain grab, no chomp, Templars don't get to dismiss the rabble, and . . .
On the minus side, they don't get to use Torin's Evil Eye, they can't be carried, and they can't climb ladders (which is a big deal, but fitting for a minotaur).
I still vote large - they make medium figures look like wimps.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
OP updated with wording change for Gore, listed as large, from the planet Feylund, and name changed to Minotaurs of Nullondia (area where the Doggin and Dund are from). Name might change of I find another area in Feylund that doesn't have characters from there.
Lord Kai- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-05-26
Location : Seattle
Will the Minotaurs of Nullondia have "Beast Bonding" or just Minotaur Hero bonding?
--
Here are some Army ideas assuming the Hero is 100 points. Could make him 110 points and drop Isamu in most of these builds.
Army Ideas:
BEASTS & BOTS
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Deathreavers x3 .. 120 points
Isamu .. 10 points
= 500
(robo' rats to harass ranged units and pin down opponents for charging)
MYTHS & LEGENDS
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Fen Hydra .. 120 points
Isamu .. 10 points
= 500
(lots and lots of melee attacks a 4+)
BIRD & BEASTS
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Quorick Warwitch .. 110 points (new c3v)
Marcu .. 20 points
= 500
(add a Special Attack and some flying in case of castle/ladder maps)
HORN & BOLT
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Myrrdin .. 90 points
Guilty McCreech .. 30 points
Isamu .. 10 points
= 500
(adds a Special Attack and a way to get bonus to d20 for Tecer's Gore)
--
Here are some Army ideas assuming the Hero is 100 points. Could make him 110 points and drop Isamu in most of these builds.
Army Ideas:
BEASTS & BOTS
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Deathreavers x3 .. 120 points
Isamu .. 10 points
= 500
(robo' rats to harass ranged units and pin down opponents for charging)
MYTHS & LEGENDS
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Fen Hydra .. 120 points
Isamu .. 10 points
= 500
(lots and lots of melee attacks a 4+)
BIRD & BEASTS
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Quorick Warwitch .. 110 points (new c3v)
Marcu .. 20 points
= 500
(add a Special Attack and some flying in case of castle/ladder maps)
HORN & BOLT
Tecer, Minotaur Hero ... 100 points
Minotaurs of Nullondia x3 ... 270 points
Myrrdin .. 90 points
Guilty McCreech .. 30 points
Isamu .. 10 points
= 500
(adds a Special Attack and a way to get bonus to d20 for Tecer's Gore)
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
I was kind of thinking to limit it to Minotaur Hero, but cross over is a fun aspect of this game so I might have to take a look at beast bonding or something similar.Kai wrote:Will the Minotaurs of Nullondia have "Beast Bonding" or just Minotaur Hero bonding?
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
by opening it up to beast bonding, the points will go up considerably. I would prefer Minotaur Hero bonding personally (only because it is much easier to get the points right). The army options are huge if we go the beast option . . . and will require a bunch of play testing.
Lord Kai- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-05-26
Location : Seattle
This would be a bit of a diversion from the "Gore" on a d20 but I was reading this special power from C3G and thinking of the Minotaurs:
INFINITE MASS PUNCH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack Special.
If Flash is unengaged at the start of his turn, before moving him, you may choose a figure within 8 clear sight spaces. Count the minimum number of spaces between Flash and the chosen figure. After moving, if you attack the chosen figure with this special attack, roll X dice, where X equals the number of spaces you counted.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=42703
INFINITE MASS PUNCH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack Special.
If Flash is unengaged at the start of his turn, before moving him, you may choose a figure within 8 clear sight spaces. Count the minimum number of spaces between Flash and the chosen figure. After moving, if you attack the chosen figure with this special attack, roll X dice, where X equals the number of spaces you counted.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=42703
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
Derek, can I get a high quality pic of each figure taken individually in your common squad? This way I can start working on the card. Thank you!
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
as soon as I have a chance. Thanks again for all your efforts on the fine card making.
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
bump
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
hopefully Thursday, probably Friday for pics.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
An informal playtest report
Sydney- Axegrinders x4, Morgrimm, Migol, and Ulfrid (610) Derek- Minotaurs x4, Tecer, and unnamed Minotaur hero (500)
Sydney wins with 325 pts. left
Migol was hard to take down rolling 1 shield every attack. Tecer killed 3 dwarves and put 2 wounds on Migol (never bull rushed). 30 pt filler Minotaur hero never received a bonus in his attack- really liked him and his threat though. Morgrim was 3 for 4 in commander strikes. Ulfrid occupied attack +1 glyph for last 2/3 of the game. Axegrinders with their fearless advantage blocked well and attacked better. Minotaurs gore let me think I was still in the game and had a chance for a while- 4 for 6 in tries.
Need to make sure wording is clear that bullrush and gore require moving in a straight line from original placement to avoid abusing the intentions. I thought Tecer was awesome- didn't do too much but if he would have broke through Migol it could have been a close game, a high reward but risky figure. Little Minotaur hero was pretty interesting as well, 30 pts seems and feels right for the 1 playt.. Minotaurs might be underpriced by 5-10 or so. The dwarves with Fearless Advantage where a tough matchup for the Minotaurs.
Sydney- Axegrinders x4, Morgrimm, Migol, and Ulfrid (610) Derek- Minotaurs x4, Tecer, and unnamed Minotaur hero (500)
Sydney wins with 325 pts. left
Migol was hard to take down rolling 1 shield every attack. Tecer killed 3 dwarves and put 2 wounds on Migol (never bull rushed). 30 pt filler Minotaur hero never received a bonus in his attack- really liked him and his threat though. Morgrim was 3 for 4 in commander strikes. Ulfrid occupied attack +1 glyph for last 2/3 of the game. Axegrinders with their fearless advantage blocked well and attacked better. Minotaurs gore let me think I was still in the game and had a chance for a while- 4 for 6 in tries.
Need to make sure wording is clear that bullrush and gore require moving in a straight line from original placement to avoid abusing the intentions. I thought Tecer was awesome- didn't do too much but if he would have broke through Migol it could have been a close game, a high reward but risky figure. Little Minotaur hero was pretty interesting as well, 30 pts seems and feels right for the 1 playt.. Minotaurs might be underpriced by 5-10 or so. The dwarves with Fearless Advantage where a tough matchup for the Minotaurs.
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
Thanks for the pics. A few were blurry in spots - did you change the settings of your camera to Micro? I can make these pics work (you probably won't even notice with 3 figs per card). I'll try to get to it this weekend.
Our we happy with were the stats stand right now? I wouldn't mind giving them some more play tests. They are pretty beefy for 80 points, but I think they are right in line with Bladedancers and Warforged . . . the Minotaurs just get to bond with a hero.
Our we happy with were the stats stand right now? I wouldn't mind giving them some more play tests. They are pretty beefy for 80 points, but I think they are right in line with Bladedancers and Warforged . . . the Minotaurs just get to bond with a hero.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
I will try and get you some better pics set on micro before you start working on cards. The OP has them at 90 not 80 and they are currently in the process of some playtesting. Reports to come before the weekend is out.
Nomad- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2013-05-26
How about Utgar?From the OP wrote:General- Nullondia
For the last power, how does this sound?
MINOTAUR HERO BONDING
Before taking a turn with the Minotaurs of Nullondia, you may first take a turn with any Minotaur Hero you control.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
Oops, must have Nullondia on the brain. Was suppossed to be Utgar.
Wording looks good. OP being updated.
Wording looks good. OP being updated.
Derek S- Posts : 1354
Join date : 2013-05-26
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Minotaurs of Nullondia
THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
The powers do reflect what they should be able to do, I also think that gore should work against destructible objects. I do wonder if they should have to move at least 1 space to be able to use gore (like the 10th regiment does for bayonet attack).
FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
Yes, in both games I found them fun to play.
FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
I don’t really think they were annoying or could be considered so. Perhaps if they were unconscious in their placement for Gore and always got the 2nd figure they were engaged with.
USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
Scent of the Prey was very effective, especially on the few occasions where Gore could be pulled off in conjunction (making it an 8 or higher on 2 different occasions.) Gore was extremely helpful in attacking a figure on height with Raelins Aura.
STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
Quite a bit for placement leading up to the attack and considering the use of Gore. I also think having to move 1 space is adding to the strategy for both sides- try to avoid or try to get it so they can’t move a space without leaving engagement adds a bit of a twist.
BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?
They bond only with Minotaur heroes and I did not run across any bonding loops.
SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
All figures that add to the 20-sider help, (Myrddin, bell guy). Raelin would make them real formidable but I think they would often out run her so I don’t think it would be anything that is not already seen with Raelin. I don’t think there are many others that offer any synergy.
POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.
I think all checks clear here. Move +2 could really help them. I think all powers are clearly defined as to when they take place and what conditions apply (must move in a straight line and count the spaces in between original placement.
DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?
Yes.
MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?
There is no turn interruptions or defensive mechanics that would create conflict that I see.
ARMY TEST 1
Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
[insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary]
Pass, 80-95, leaning towards the higher end. I really thought it was the Minotaur heroes that underperformed. The 10th had the benefit of the dice rolls often, but were perched on height, in Raelins aura, with at least 2 up to 4 next to Marcus. The Minotaurs had shadow but fell pretty quick.
Map: [insert map] Shattered.
Units: Army 1: [4 squads of Minotaurs @ 90, Tecer 110, Apeo 30] ([500]) VS Army 2: [10th x 4, Marcus, Raelin, Marcu] ([500])
Rd 1- Positioning until 3rd order marker. 10th misses. Minotaur rolls a 10 from 5 space away to gore a 10th.
Rd 2- Tecer misses Marcus & 10th (Raelin), 11 for Minotaur on Gore roll for a kill, Marcus blocks an attack. 10th kill 1 Minotaur and put 1 wound on Tecer. Minotaurs kill 1 10th in two attacks (Tecer misses Bull Rush on Marcus.) 10th put 2 wounds (3 tot.) on Tecer and miss 1 attack on a Minotaur. Minotaurs kill 1 10th, miss one, Tecer misses both attacks. 10th kill 2 Minotaurs and Tecer.
Rd 3- Minotaurs kill 1 10th, whiff a 2nd attack. 10th kill 3 Minotaurs. 10th kill two more Minotaurs. Apeo misses, Scent of Prey gets a Minotaur adjacent and Minotaurs get 2 10th. 10th kill Apeo and 2 Minotaurs.
Rd 4- Minos get 1 10th. 10th get last 2 Minos.
7 10th dead is all the damage the Minotaurs could do.
ARMY TEST 2
Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
[Pass, 90ish. Once again I thought the Minotaurs did a better job of holding their own than did the heroes. This time the Minotaurs tried to flank the 10th instead of charging across the lowlands. Although Tecer couldn’t resist getting his double attack in by coming through the middle of the map.]
Map: [Shattered]
Units: Army 1: [same] ([500]) VS Army 2: [same] ([500])
Rd 1- 3rd turn 10th get 1 wound on Tecer.
Rd 2- Four 10th finish off Tecer. Minotaur uses Scent of Prey moving 6 spaces for a 9 roll and kill on a 10th. 10th kill 3 Minotaurs. Minotaurs use Scent of Prey twice for 2 10th kills. 10th kill 1 Minotaur with 4 attacks. Apeo kill a 10th with 6 attack freeing up 2 Minotaurs. Minotaurs kill 2 10th and miss the one in Raelins aura.
Rd 3- 10th kill 1 Minotaur and 1 wound Apeo. Apeo gets 1 10th with 4 attack, a Minotaur misses attack in Raelins aura. 10th blocked by 3 shield roll of Minotaur, put 1 wound on Apeo, who blocks 2nd attack with perfect 2 shield roll, but then falls to final attack. Minotaur rolls a 16 to gore a 10th but misses attack on another, 2nd Minotaur rolls a 20 to get a 10th and puts 3 wounds on Marcus, 3rd Minotaur kills another 10th. 10th get 1 Minotaur, miss with 2 attacks both with bayonet, Marcus, and height. A Minotaur puts 4th wound on Marcus, another kills a 10th.
Rd 4- Raelin rolls 3 shields to block attack and it takes 2 Minotaur attacks to get a 10th. Two 10th get two Minotaurs on shadow with height and Marcus, two 10th miss with 3 attack die. 1 Minotaur puts a wound on Raelin. 10th wait then fire killing 2 Minotaurs in range. 10th wait then fire again to get a Minotaur.
Rd 5- 10th move across board to get last 2 Minotaurs from range.
1 squad of 10th, Marcu, a 2 life Marcus, and 4 life Raelin are left.
Final thoughts. I think the Minotaurs performed at about 90 points, Apeo seemed appropriate at 30, but Tecer did not seem worth 110. A tough matchup for the Minotaurs on a map that suited the 10th and podding up really well (I don’t think this map is tournament worthy). I could see the Minotaurs dropping to 85 but probably not much lower than that based on their performance, especially in the 2nd game where they went with a much better strategy.
THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
The powers do reflect what they should be able to do, I also think that gore should work against destructible objects. I do wonder if they should have to move at least 1 space to be able to use gore (like the 10th regiment does for bayonet attack).
FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
Yes, in both games I found them fun to play.
FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
I don’t really think they were annoying or could be considered so. Perhaps if they were unconscious in their placement for Gore and always got the 2nd figure they were engaged with.
USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
Scent of the Prey was very effective, especially on the few occasions where Gore could be pulled off in conjunction (making it an 8 or higher on 2 different occasions.) Gore was extremely helpful in attacking a figure on height with Raelins Aura.
STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
Quite a bit for placement leading up to the attack and considering the use of Gore. I also think having to move 1 space is adding to the strategy for both sides- try to avoid or try to get it so they can’t move a space without leaving engagement adds a bit of a twist.
BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?
They bond only with Minotaur heroes and I did not run across any bonding loops.
SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
All figures that add to the 20-sider help, (Myrddin, bell guy). Raelin would make them real formidable but I think they would often out run her so I don’t think it would be anything that is not already seen with Raelin. I don’t think there are many others that offer any synergy.
POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.
I think all checks clear here. Move +2 could really help them. I think all powers are clearly defined as to when they take place and what conditions apply (must move in a straight line and count the spaces in between original placement.
DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?
Yes.
MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?
There is no turn interruptions or defensive mechanics that would create conflict that I see.
ARMY TEST 1
Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
[insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary]
Pass, 80-95, leaning towards the higher end. I really thought it was the Minotaur heroes that underperformed. The 10th had the benefit of the dice rolls often, but were perched on height, in Raelins aura, with at least 2 up to 4 next to Marcus. The Minotaurs had shadow but fell pretty quick.
Map: [insert map] Shattered.
Units: Army 1: [4 squads of Minotaurs @ 90, Tecer 110, Apeo 30] ([500]) VS Army 2: [10th x 4, Marcus, Raelin, Marcu] ([500])
Rd 1- Positioning until 3rd order marker. 10th misses. Minotaur rolls a 10 from 5 space away to gore a 10th.
Rd 2- Tecer misses Marcus & 10th (Raelin), 11 for Minotaur on Gore roll for a kill, Marcus blocks an attack. 10th kill 1 Minotaur and put 1 wound on Tecer. Minotaurs kill 1 10th in two attacks (Tecer misses Bull Rush on Marcus.) 10th put 2 wounds (3 tot.) on Tecer and miss 1 attack on a Minotaur. Minotaurs kill 1 10th, miss one, Tecer misses both attacks. 10th kill 2 Minotaurs and Tecer.
Rd 3- Minotaurs kill 1 10th, whiff a 2nd attack. 10th kill 3 Minotaurs. 10th kill two more Minotaurs. Apeo misses, Scent of Prey gets a Minotaur adjacent and Minotaurs get 2 10th. 10th kill Apeo and 2 Minotaurs.
Rd 4- Minos get 1 10th. 10th get last 2 Minos.
7 10th dead is all the damage the Minotaurs could do.
ARMY TEST 2
Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
[Pass, 90ish. Once again I thought the Minotaurs did a better job of holding their own than did the heroes. This time the Minotaurs tried to flank the 10th instead of charging across the lowlands. Although Tecer couldn’t resist getting his double attack in by coming through the middle of the map.]
Map: [Shattered]
Units: Army 1: [same] ([500]) VS Army 2: [same] ([500])
Rd 1- 3rd turn 10th get 1 wound on Tecer.
Rd 2- Four 10th finish off Tecer. Minotaur uses Scent of Prey moving 6 spaces for a 9 roll and kill on a 10th. 10th kill 3 Minotaurs. Minotaurs use Scent of Prey twice for 2 10th kills. 10th kill 1 Minotaur with 4 attacks. Apeo kill a 10th with 6 attack freeing up 2 Minotaurs. Minotaurs kill 2 10th and miss the one in Raelins aura.
Rd 3- 10th kill 1 Minotaur and 1 wound Apeo. Apeo gets 1 10th with 4 attack, a Minotaur misses attack in Raelins aura. 10th blocked by 3 shield roll of Minotaur, put 1 wound on Apeo, who blocks 2nd attack with perfect 2 shield roll, but then falls to final attack. Minotaur rolls a 16 to gore a 10th but misses attack on another, 2nd Minotaur rolls a 20 to get a 10th and puts 3 wounds on Marcus, 3rd Minotaur kills another 10th. 10th get 1 Minotaur, miss with 2 attacks both with bayonet, Marcus, and height. A Minotaur puts 4th wound on Marcus, another kills a 10th.
Rd 4- Raelin rolls 3 shields to block attack and it takes 2 Minotaur attacks to get a 10th. Two 10th get two Minotaurs on shadow with height and Marcus, two 10th miss with 3 attack die. 1 Minotaur puts a wound on Raelin. 10th wait then fire killing 2 Minotaurs in range. 10th wait then fire again to get a Minotaur.
Rd 5- 10th move across board to get last 2 Minotaurs from range.
1 squad of 10th, Marcu, a 2 life Marcus, and 4 life Raelin are left.
Final thoughts. I think the Minotaurs performed at about 90 points, Apeo seemed appropriate at 30, but Tecer did not seem worth 110. A tough matchup for the Minotaurs on a map that suited the 10th and podding up really well (I don’t think this map is tournament worthy). I could see the Minotaurs dropping to 85 but probably not much lower than that based on their performance, especially in the 2nd game where they went with a much better strategy.
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