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    W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:36 pm

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:39 pm

    This guy needs some PT with change to S.A. Hopefully I will have a chance this weekend.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:34 pm

    I would like to play test Kyrllin as well.

    Where do his powers currently rest?
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:00 pm

    the OP is good. The conceal power is just worded 2 different ways. Points are the real concern here, I think 150 might be too high, maybe 130?
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:33 pm


    If you want to drop him to around 130-points, I could see Dragon Sting only working on Small or Medium.

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:55 pm

    From where he was at before his base range is one instead of 5 and obviously Phantasm is now a special attack limited to 2 dice. He might still be at 150 but I think he might be a little less now. I like the idea of small or medium restriction. Perhaps from

    Dragon Sting
    After moving and before attacking, you may choose any figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Kyrlin. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives 1 wound. You may continue to use Dragon Sting on the chosen figure until you do not inflict a wound.

    to

    Dragon Sting
    After moving and before attacking, you may choose one figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Kyrllin. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives 1 wound. If the chosen figure is small or medium you may continue to roll for Dragon Sting until you do not inflict a wound.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:20 pm

    I'm OK with it working only on small or mediums . . . reluctantly. I would love for a Braxus or Nilf to get a taste of their own medicine (stung by a dragon!). Just my two cents.

    We will need to do play tests to figure out the right points. I think the testing we did before didn't have the attack as a special.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:54 pm

    After the Minotaurs and Whisperers I hope to give him a few playtests soon.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:54 pm

    Can we change the name of this thread to "Kyrllin - Brainstorming Phase"?

    It would be so much easier to find.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:29 pm

    I think the OP is good, I'll move this guy to playtesting phase if there are no objections. I'll get some playtesting in today.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:36 pm

    NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Kyrllin

    THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.

    I think the powers definitely give him a Wizardy feel and are appropriate. I don’t see any reason why Phantasm should not be able to affect D.O.’s


    FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?

    I think he is very fun to play.


    FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?

    Yes Kyrllin was acceptable to play against. He could be considered annoying if he is rolling more than 2 defensive dice as he becomes real hard to wound.


    USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?

    Phantasm and Conceal and Dragon Sting were all used. I like the changes to Phantasm and upping his base attack.


    STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?

    Trying to keep him from getting height or aura’d are keys when playing against him. Beyond that his survivability is good, and choosing between Phantasm and his base attack was interesting.

    BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?

    He doesn’t bond with any one so I think this is safe.


    SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?

    Raelin can really help this guy- I am going to run a few playtests there. Maybe a Raelin/Kelda combo. His defense could get real good. Maybe we could put a clause in the Conceal Power that limits when he may use Conceal. “When rolling defensive dice, If Kyrllin rolls 4 or less dice he may use conceal. Etc.” Just a thought.


    POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.

    Conceal could be potentially overamplified, however you can work around him to get his defense down as well. Dragon Sting is fair, I don’t mind the restriction of small/medium figures to keep rolling. I think the powers are clearly defined.


    DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?

    Yes, at 140 a very stout figure.


    MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?

    Not that I see.



    ARMY TEST 1

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
    ]He performed OK. It was pretty much a slaughter before he got involved, and he was surrounded by Gilbert and KoW right away. Kyrllin put 4 wounds on Gilbert and killed a KoW in the game. 140 proved high for his efforts this game, but I think that was due more to how quickly he was surrounded. ]


    Map: [Smokeys Lament]
    Units: Army 1: [Kyrllin (140) Atlaga (90) Myrddin (90), Protectors of Ullarx3 (330)] ([650]) VS Army 2: [KoW x4, Finn, Thorgrim, Gilbert] ([545])

    Rd 1- Protector blocked by Knight(thorgrim) (1sk 1sh), Protector 1 wound on Thorgrim (2sk 1sh). Gilbert gets a Protector (1sk 0sh), KoW (gilbert) blocked by Protector (1sk 1 sh), KoW gets a Protector (2sk 1sh), KoW gets another (2sk 1sh).

    RD 2- 3 Protectors 2 wound Gilbert (2sk 4sh- 1sk 2sh- 2sk 0sh). Thorgrim (gilbert) blocked by Protector (height) (2sk 2sh), KoW kills Protector (1sk 0sh), 2nd KoW (gilbert) gets another Prot. (4sk 1sh). Atlaga rolls 3 for Bolt of Witherwood on Gilbert then with height whiffs attack. Gilbert whiffs on Prot., KoW blocked by Prot. (1sk 2sh), KoWblocked by Prot (1sk 2sh), KoW (gilbert) get Prot. (4sk 2sh), 4th KoW gets a Prot. (2sk 1sh). 1st Prot. Blocked by KoW (1sk 1sh), 2nd whiffs attack, 3rd Prot. (height) kills Thorgrim (4sk 1sh)- Thorgrim on Gilbert. Gilbert (height) 3 wounds Atlaga (3sk 0sh), 1st KoWblocked by Prot. (1sk 1sh), 2nd KoW kills a Prot. (3sk 1sh), 3rd KoW blocked by Prot. (height) (1sk 2sh), 4th KoW (height/gilbert) gets a Prot. (2sk 0sh). Gilbert lava wound, KoW safe.

    Rd 3- Gilbert (height) blocked by Prot. (1sk 1sh), KoW (height/gilbert) gets Atlaga (5sk 3sh), 2nd KoW blocked by Myrddin (1sk 1sh). Myrddin Call of lightning attack with 2sk- blocked by Gilbert (height/thorgrim)(2sh), Kow 2sh, Kow (height) 2sh, Myrddin takes 1 wound with 1sh. Gilber (height) blocked by Myrddin (1sk 1sh), KoW’s surround Myrddin (hight/Gilbert 2sk 0sh), (gilbert Myrddin on height 3sk 1sh), (2sk 1sh) for kill. Kyrllin dragon stings Gilbert 16, 14 for 1 wound, kills a KoW with Phantasm (1sk+1sh=3sk 0sh). Gilbert whiffs attack, KoW 1 wounds Kyrllin (height) (3sk 1sh+1sk=2sh), KoW blocked by Kyrllin (height) (2sk 1sh+2sk=3sh), KoW(gilbert) 1 wounds Kyrllin (3sk 2sk=2sh), KoW (gilbert) blocked (2sk 2sk=2sh). Kyrllin Dragon Stings Gilbert 16, 2 for 1 wound, attack blocked by Gilbert (1sk 2sh)

    Rd 4-Gilbert 1 wound on Kyrllin (3sk 1sk+1sh=2sh), KoW blocked by Kyrllin (height( (2sk 1sk+1sh+1bl=2sh), 2 KoW’s (gilbert) attack Kyrllin (2sk 1sk+1bl=1sh- 2sk 2sk=2sh) for 1 wound. Kyrllin Dragon Stings Gilbert 9 for miss, kills Gilbert with attack (3sk 2sh). KoW misses Kyrllin (height) (2sk 1sk 2sh=3sh). 3KoW attack Kyrllin (2sk 1sk+1bl=1sh) for kill.

    15 KoW and full life Finn left.

    Final thoughts- A complete route. Strategy wise I allowed the KoW to get too many attacks on the Protectors. KoW clearly the better army. Kyrllin performed decently putting 3 wounds on Gilbert (2 with Dragon Sting, 1 with normal attack) and killing a KoW. 140 didn't feel too off. More to come.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:02 pm

    Thanks for the report!

    You ran a 650 army against a 545 army? And the 650 army still lost?

    Ouch.

    What was the final total of dragon sting, conceal, and phantasm? In your opinion, how much influence did those powers have vs. normal dice rolls in this battle? Would another squad of Protectors been better than fielding Kyrllin in this army?

    Lots of questions. I will try to give him a play test when and if time allows.

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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:30 pm

    Nice report!! Yeah the Protectors are pretty fragile with only 3 defense .. maybe Raelin instead of Myrrdin would have helped a bit against the powerhouse Knights of Weston. I haven't had much luck with Myrrdin .. though I would have thought his Area of Effect lightning would be good against advancing KoW.

    And I'm curious on what you thought of Kyrllin .. with only 2 attacks (Sting + Phantasm) he's not going to be able to keep up with KoW + Champion unless he's running away a lot.

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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:40 pm

    ARMY TEST 2

    Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
    [Offensively Kyrllin performed ok- didn’t really to a whole lot of damage. Defensively Kyrllin with Raelin was amazingly stout. I don’t think he is too off base with his current stats. Kyrllin getting 4 defensive die made him a wall.]


    Map: [Shattered]
    Units: Army 1: [Kyrllin 140, Fen Hydra x2 240, Raelin 80, Kelda 80.] ([540]) VS Army 2: [KoW x4, Finn, Gilbert, Thorgrimm] ([545])

    Rd 1- Positioning with KoW gaining majority of the board, Hydra to side in a pod.

    Rd 2- Kyrllin moves out and Dragon Sting misses Thorgrim with 4 roll, Phantasm on Thorgrim blocked (1bl+1sh=2sk @2sh). Gilbert (hgt) blocked by Kyrllin (Rae.) (1 sk @ 3sk+1bl=3sh), KoW (hgt/Gil) blocked by Kyrllin (Rae.) (2/5sk 1bl+3sh=3sh), 2 KoW’s (1 w/Gil) blocked by Fen Hydra (Rae). Hydra attacks Gilbert(hgt) for 2 wounds. Thorgrim moves up to aid defensive, KoW gets on Def +1 glyph, one KoW had earlier gotten Lodin glyph, KoW (hgt/Gil) blocked by Kyrllin (1/5 sk @ 1sk+3sh=4sh), 2 KoW’s (1 w/Gil) blocked by Hydra (Rae).

    Rd 3- Gilbert blocked by Kyrllin (Rae) (2/4sk @ 1bl+1sh+2sk=3sh), KoW (hgt/Gil) puts 1 wound on Kyrllin (5/5 sk @ 2sk+2sh=4sh), KoW (Gil) blocked by Hydra (Rae), another KoW puts 3 wounds on Hydra (Rae). Kyrllin misses Dragon Sting on Gilbert with 4 roll, Phantasms Gilbert (Thor/hgt) (1sk+1sh=3sk @ 4/7sh). Gilbert (hgt) blocked by Kyrllin (1/4sk @ 1bl+2sk+1sh=3sh), KoW blocked by Kyrllin (2/3 sk @ 3sh+1sk=4sh), KoW (hgt/Gil) blocked by Kyrllin (3/5sk @2sk+2sh=4sh), 2 KoW’s (1 w/Gil) blocked by Hydra (Rae). Kyrllin Dragon Stings Gilbert for 1 wound with 17-10 rolls, Attacks Kow (gly) but blocked (2/4sk @2/5sh). Gilbert (hgt) blocked by Kyrllin (1/4sk @ 1sh+3sk=4sh), KoW (hgt/Gil) blocked by Kyrllin (4/5sk @ 1sk+3sh=4sh), KoW blocked by Kyrllin (2/3 sk @ 2sk+2sh=4sh), 2 KoW’s (1w/Gil) blocked by Hydra. Hyrdra#2 kills a KoW, Gilbert(hgt/Thor) blocks 3 attacks.

    Rd 4- Kelda rolls a 9 to remove 2 wounds from Hydra (1 remaining). Gilbert (hgt) blocked by Kyrllin (Rae) ( 2/4sk @ 4sh), KoW (hgt/Gil) blocked by Kyrllin (3/5 sk @ 2sk+1sh+1bl=3sh), 2 KoW’s (1w/Gil) blocked by Hydra (Rae). Kyrllin misses Dragon Sting on Gilbert w/ 5 roll, Phantasms Gilbert (hgt/gly/Thor) for 1 wound (2sk @ 1/7sh). Gilbert (hgt) 1 wounds Kyrllin (Rae) (4/4sk @ 1sh+2sk+1bl=3sh), KoW (hgt/Gil) 2 wounds Kyrllin (Rae) (4/5 sk @ 2bl+2sk=2sh), another KoW whiffs on Kyrllin, 2 KoW’s (1w/Gil) kill Hydra (2 out 16 sh). Hydra#2 blocked by 2 KoW’s, Kills 1, puts 2 wounds on Gilbert for kill. Finn moves up, 3 KoW’s (2 w/ hgt) blocked by Kyrllin (Rae) (2/4sk @ 4sk=4sh & 3/4sk @ 3sh+1sk=4sh & 1/3sk @ 2sk+2h=4sh), KoW puts a wound on Kelda.

    Rd 5- Finn moves up, KoW surround Kyrllin(Rae) and attack (2w/hgt) (2/4sk @ 2sh+2sk=4sh & 3/4sk @ 3sk+1bl=3sh & 1/3sk @ 2sh+2sk=4sh & 2/3sk @ 1bl+3sk=3sh). Kelda can’t get next to surrounded Kyrllin so kills a KoW. Finn gives attack bonus, KoW(Finn) blocked by Kelda(rae), 2 KoW’s (both w/hgt 1 w/finn) attack blocked by Kyrllin (3/5sk @ 3sk+1sh=4sh & 3/4sk @ 2sh+1sk+1bl=3sh), KoW puts 1 wound on Hydra(rae). Kyrllin Dragon Stings Thorgrim for 1 wound with 19,2 rolls, blocked by KoW (gly) (2/4sk @ 2/5sh). 2 KoW (both w/hgt, 1 w/finn) blocked by Kyrllin(rae) (1/5sk @ 3sh+1sk=4sh & 2/4sk @ 3sk+1sh=4sh), KoW blocked by Hydra(rae), KoW(finn) 3 wounds Kelda(rae). 3-headed Hydra Kills 2 KoW’s. Thorgrim(finn) whiffs on Kelda, KoW (hgt/finn) kills Kyrllin(rae) (3/5sk @ 2bl+1sh+1sk+2sh).

    Rd 6- Lodin gives KoW initiative. Throgrim(finn) kills Kelda, KoW misses Raelin, 2 KoW put 2 wounds on Hydra. Hydra blocked by KoW. Thorgrim blocked by Raelin, 2KoW attacks kill Hydra, KoW puts 2 wounds on Raelin. Turn 2 lost by Hydra team. Thorgrim & 2 KoW kill Raelin.

    3 life Thorgrim, Finn, 10 KoW left.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:19 pm

    In 2nd playtest Kyrllin was 2 for 7 with Dragon Sting. He used Phantasm 3 times with 2 shields being rolled, inflicting 1 wound. Conceal changed 51 skulls to shields, blocking 24 potential wounds.

    I really don't like the idea of Kyrllin with Conceal if he is rolling 5 or more dice, as he would become near impossible to get. I wouldn't mind one of the following options here, (or if someone has something to add)

    1) If Kyrllin rolls 4 or less defensive dice he may use conceal.
    2) Start the game with 3 conceal markers on Kyrllin's card. After rolling defensive die you may remove a marker and change a skull to a shield. After revealing an order marker/after taking a turn/if Kyrllin doesn't use Dragon Sting you may put 1 previously removed conceal marker on Kyrllin's card.
    3) After rolling defensive dice, Kyrllin may count up to 2 skulls rolled as additional blocks.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:53 pm

    Although it would add to the complexity of the figure, what do you guys think of changing

    Conceal
    When defending with Kyrlin, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block.

    to

    Conceal
    Start the game with 3 conceal markers on this card. For every skull rolled when rolling defensive die for Kyrllin (or a figure adjacent?) you may remove a conceal marker and change a skull to a shield. After taking a turn with Kyrllin you may put 1 previously removed Conceal marker back on this card.

    This might mean upping his base defense to 3 or lowering his points. What do you all think?
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:55 am

    Another option . . .

    CONCEAL
    When revealing a numbered order marker on Kyrllin's Army Card, you may also reveal an "X" order marker that is on Kyrllin's Army Card to activate Conceal for the duration of the round. While Conceal is active, when rolling defense dice for Kyrllin against a non-adjacent attack each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block. When Conceal is active, Kyrllin can not use the Phantasm Special Power.

    Derek wrote:After rolling defensive dice, Kyrllin may count up to 2 skulls rolled as additional blocks
    Of the options you listed, this one sounds the best to me.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:05 am


    CONCEAL
    When revealing a numbered order marker on Kyrllin's Army Card, you may also reveal an "X" order marker that is on Kyrllin's Army Card to activate Conceal for the duration of the round. While Conceal is active, when rolling defense dice for Kyrllin against a non-adjacent attack each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block. When Conceal is active, Kyrllin can not use the Phantasm Special Power.
    interesting idea. He would be worth quite a bit less in going this way, which is ok with me. He would always be vulnerable to adjacent attacks so I wouldn't mind upping his base defense to 3 if we went this way.
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    Lord Kai

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Lord Kai on Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:54 am

    Nomad wrote:Another option . . .

    CONCEAL
    When revealing a numbered order marker on Kyrllin's Army Card, you may also reveal an "X" order marker that is on Kyrllin's Army Card to activate Conceal for the duration of the round. While Conceal is active, when rolling defense dice for Kyrllin against a non-adjacent attack each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block. When Conceal is active, Kyrllin can not use the Phantasm Special Power.


    This is an interesting idea. It does require you to be using OM's to keep his survivability going. If you go in this direction, I could see bumping the Special Attack to 3 and keeping his points the same.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:14 am

    Hopefully give this guy a whirl today with 3 attack for the special, and a base of 3 for defense. Definitely will give him some offensive threat this way, but if you get to him he'll go down quick.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:25 am

    Damon and I ran a few more playtests with this guy today at his old stats. In 2 games he was backed by Raelin and didn't really prove worth his 140 pts. He is a good screen and hard to kill though not quite the threat of Sonlen. I am leaning towards keeping him at his current stats in the OP and bumping him to 145-150, although he may stay at 140. If he is backed by Raelin, kill Raelin first.
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    Nomad

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Nomad on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:31 am

    After our play tests, I am convinced that his powers should stay the same. He makes a good screen and a very good clean-up figure. I would leave him at 140 points.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:24 pm

    I am still not convinced this guy is right. I really like the powers, but I dunno what it is. I will run some more playtests with this guy but I'd like to give the guy a little different feel.

    I like his defense of 2 and skulls count as shields from ranged attacks. I am not so sure against adjacent attacks- thematically. But a defense of 2 is not enough if you drop concealment for this character.

    Dragon Sting- the figurine calls for this power, I like it and do not want to see it changed.

    Phantasm- I like the power but a little hesitant on the name. I could see upping the range to 6.

    Concealment- I like the power but a little nervous about possibilities (I know we talked about it Damon). So, this is the change I am thinking would be best.

    Conceal
    When defending with Kyrlin, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block.
    to

    Conceal (or Staff of ?)
    When defending with Kyrllin against a non adjacent attack, each skull rolled counts as 1 additional block. Kyrllin adds 1 automatic shield when defending against an adjacent attack.

    What do you all think?
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:12 pm

    or how about
    CONCEAL
    When defending with Kyrllin from a normal non adjacent attack, each skull rolled counts as an additional block. When rolling defense dice, Kyrllin always adds 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.
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    Derek S

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

    Post  Derek S on Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:23 pm

    bio rough draft.

    Armed with his staff and dragon Kyrllin is a formidable foe. His dragon can drop the most powerful of enemies in one poisonous sting, while the mystical powers channeled through his staff often confuse his adversaries. They think Kyrllin is where he is not, and often do not see his attack coming.

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    Re: W1 Kyrllin RELEASED

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