W4 - Surion - Air Primordial - ready for final

June 2016 Update

SURION WINDSEEKER
Species: Primordial

General: Jandar
Planet: Eberron

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Warrior
Personality: Bold
Medium 5

Life: 4
Move: 8
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 5
130 Points

MASTER OF THE WINDS
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, before taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power.  

CYCLONE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range: 1  Attack:  3
Instead of moving and attacking normally with Surion, you may move Surion up to 4 spaces.  Surion can attack up to 3 times with Cyclone Special Attack at any point before, during, or after this move as long as Surion is on a space where he could end his movement.  Figures that have the Flying or Stealth Flying special power subtract 1 from their defense dice when attacked by Cyclone Special Attack.

STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations. Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Spoiler:

Powers are pretty simple.

I started out thinking he should have Move 8 and Double Attack to represent his incredible speed. I also thought about some sort of d20 power that might reflect him flying over the battlefield at high speed. But then I thought it would be easier to just simplify it ..

Having a Move 4 and taking a turn twice is equal to Move 8.
Being able to take 2 turns is basically Double Attack, but it allows Surion to attack and then move again and attack with very simple Power language.


Anyway, no bonding with Air Elementals.

Very cool miniature, any info on it? At first glance looks good.

Derek S wrote:Very cool miniature, any info on it?  At first glance looks good.

Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures Air Genasi Swashbuckler 13/60 CG 36


He goes for about $10 but I have two already and am happy to share.

I like the figure and the stats so far.

Kai wrote:SABRE-STORM SPEED
Once per turn, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may immediately take one additional turn.

The wording could be interpreted to be an endless loop. If he takes an additional turn, then you can use the power once for that turn as well. Take an additional turn, and then use the power once for that turn, etc. Suggestion on the wording . . .

SABRE-STORM SPEED
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on Surion Windseeker's Army Card, you may take two turns with Surion Windseeker.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little synergy with the Air Elementals. Once per round, this would enable you to get a couple of Air Elementals into defensive position without having to spend an order marker on them. What do you think about this?

AIR COMMAND
After taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker that is on Surion Windseeker's Army Card and immediately move two figures with the Air Mastery special power up to 5 spaces each.

Nomad wrote:I like the figure and the stats so far.

Kai wrote:SABRE-STORM SPEED
Once per turn, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may immediately take one additional turn.

The wording could be interpreted to be an endless loop. If he takes an additional turn, then you can use the power once for that turn as well. Take an additional turn, and then use the power once for that turn, etc. Suggestion on the wording . . .

SABRE-STORM SPEED
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on Surion Windseeker's Army Card, you may take two turns with Surion Windseeker.

Good catch Yes, no infinite loops - so "after an OM" works great.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little synergy with the Air Elementals. Once per round, this would enable you to get a couple of Air Elementals into defensive position without having to spend an order marker on them. What do you think about this?

AIR COMMAND
After taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker that is on Surion Windseeker's Army Card and immediately move two figures with the Air Mastery special power up to 5 spaces each.

Air Command sounds good. I was thinking that a double-turn each OM was pretty powerful, and I wanted to keep the points down. Do you think a once/round Air Elemental moving bonding adds 20 points?

Kai wrote:Air Command sounds good. I was thinking that a double-turn each OM was pretty powerful, and I wanted to keep the points down. Do you think a once/round Air Elemental moving bonding adds 20 points?

Hmm . . . I'm not sure I would add any points to the 130 that is listed right now. His attack isn't huge, his life isn't over the top, and his move is only 4 - yes he has stealth flying and a double turn. I would be interested to play test him and see what we think. Perhaps we can drop his bonus dice for non-adjacent attacks down to +2 or +1 if the points are more than you want. I'll do some thinking and theory-scaping.

What about:

AIR COMMAND
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may choose one of the following:
- Immediately take another turn with Surion Windseeker
- Take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power

Kai wrote:What about:

AIR COMMAND
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may choose one of the following:
- Immediately take another turn with Surion Windseeker
- Take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power

I thought heavily about just this very option when suggesting what I did. I think it would bump his points a bit to be able to take full turns with the Air Elementals rather than just moves once per round. I'm OK with it, but it would probably push him up to 150.

What about changing Stealth Flying a little bit and making it so that if Surion fly's over a friendly figure with Air Mastery power you may take a turn with that figure. With his move of four he is not very often going to be able to fly over 2 figures, and if he does he probably won't be able to get to the enemy so I don't think it would add a lot to his cost.

STEALTH WIND FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations. Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. If Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. After Surion Windseeker finishes his turn, if Surion Windseeker passed over a friendly figure the Air Mastery power, you may immediately take a turn with that figure.

Derek S wrote:What about changing Stealth Flying a little bit and making it so that if Surion fly's over a friendly figure with Air Mastery power you may take a turn with that figure.  With his move of four he is not very often going to be able to fly over 2 figures, and if he does he probably won't be able to get to the enemy so I don't think it would add a lot to his cost.

STEALTH WIND FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations.  Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins.  If Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.  After Surion Windseeker finishes his turn, if Surion Windseeker passed over a friendly figure the Air Mastery power, you may immediately take a turn with that figure.

Dude, that's brilliant!!

With Move 4, the most he could pass over is 3 figures before needing to stop at an open hex/space. You could abuse this if you had 3 Air Elementals constantly following him around. It would be interesting to play-test. Might change from friendly to figure you control.

Very good idea, Derek. I am so thankful that we are able to bounce ideas off of each other, give suggestions, and implement changes that result in great figures. We do good work!

New idea of the Air Primordial:


SURION WINDSEEKER

Figure:  Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures Air Genasi Swashbuckler 13/60 CG 36

General:  Jandar
Planet:  Eberron

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Warrior
Personality: Bold
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 5
130 Points

CYCLONE SPEED
After revealing an order marker and taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may immediately take another turn with him.

CALL THE WINDS
If Order Marker 1 is placed on Surion Windseeker, then instead of taking that turn with Surion, you may take a turn with up to 3 common small or medium Air Elementals you control.  Add 1 to the Move value of those Air Elementals during those turns.

STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations.  Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins.  Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

I kind of liked the Stealth Wind Flying idea, but

CYCLONE SPEED
After revealing an order marker and taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may immediately take another turn with him.

Like the idea here, though "Speed" suggests more than a 4 move.

CALL THE WINDS
If Order Marker 1 is placed on Surion Windseeker, then instead of taking that turn with Surion, you may take a turn with up to 3 common small or medium Air Elementals you control. Add 1 to the Move value of those Air Elementals during those turns.

For a 130 pt. figure I wouldn't mind having the option after revealing any #'ed order marker, but I could see that bumping his points a bit. Maybe counter that by dropping his defense 1.

Derek S wrote:I kind of liked the Stealth Wind Flying idea, but ...

Yeah, I really liked the concept but I think it gets too complicated.  He'd move 4 - then you take a turn with an Air Elemental that he flew over - which could be more than 1 -- and then he gets to take his second turn?  It would be hard to track.  

I also thought about the "X" order marker mechanic but I thought of trying Ornak's Flag out for size instead.

Edit:  Maybe I should just go with:

CALL THE WINDS
Instead of taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may take a turn with 2 common Air Elementals you control.

Essentially this would give you 2 activations (move/attack) each turn .. either with Surion or 2 Air Elementals.


Primordials:

Zaiken - Takes a turn, bonds with 3 Commons (Water, Sahuagin)
Tawarthion - Take a turn with Animae Squad, then Hero
Kronan - Take a turn, bond with 2 Elementals

Surion - Take 2 turns? or Bond with 3 Elementals

Fire - tbd


I like the double-turn with Cyclone Speed .. but I worry it makes him impossible to catch in the end-game.  If its down to him and say Knights of Weston, he's going to be nearly impossible to engage.

Nomad wrote:

Kai wrote:What about:

AIR COMMAND
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may choose one of the following:
- Immediately take another turn with Surion Windseeker
- Take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power

I thought heavily about just this very option when suggesting what I did. I think it would bump his points a bit to be able to take full turns with the Air Elementals rather than just moves once per round. I'm OK with it, but it would probably push him up to 150.

I think I am falling back to this version ... maybe just changing the name to MASTER OF THE WINDS.

MASTER OF THE WINDS
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may choose one of the following:
- Immediately take another turn with Surion Windseeker
- Take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power


I will see if I can sneak in a short play-test to see how it functions on the battlefield.

SURION WINDSEEKER

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Warrior
Personality: Bold
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
120 Points

MASTER OF THE WINDS
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, after taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may choose one of the following:
- Immediately take another turn with Surion Windseeker
- Take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power

EVASIVE ACTION
After Surion Windseeker rolls defense dice against a non-adjacent attack from an opponent's figure, you may move him up to 2 spaces.

STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations. Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

I ran two play-tests with the Move 4 and taking double-turns.  It really doesn't work : (  or at least it is not worth 130-points.

I'm going to work on some new ideas and see if another power set will make sense.  I was considering something like:


GIFT OF FLIGHT
Before moving a Hero or Squad you control, you may reveal an X order marker on Surion Windseeker to activate Gift of Flight.  Choose up to 4 small or medium figures or one large or huge figure you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker.  For this turn, the chosen figures may move as if they possessed the Stealth Flying Special Power on Surion Windseeker's Army Card.  


Thoughts?

Probably needs some word-smithing.

I like the idea of him flying over the individual and stealthily lifting a figure out, then maybe reveal an X marker and take a turn with that figure.

Latest ideas:

SURION WINDSEEKER

Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 4
Move: 7
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 5
100 Points

MASTER OF THE WINDS
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, before taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power.  Figures that have the Flying or Stealth Flying special power subtract 1 from their defense dice when attacked by Surion Windseeker.

GIFT OF FLIGHT
Before moving Surion Windseeker, you may reveal an X order marker on Surion Windseeker to activate Gift of Flight.  Choose up to 4 small or medium figures or one large or huge figure you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker. You may choose Surion Windseeker.  You may move the chosen figures 5 spaces as if they possessed the Stealth Flying Special Power on Surion Windseeker's Army Card.  

STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations. Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

I would like some feedback on this power idea. I'd drop the Gift of Flight in favor of this:

CYCLONE
After taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Cyclone for the duration of the round. While Cyclone is active, any figure that is within 3 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker or at least one Air Elemental reduces their range value by 3.


I tried a play-test with Gift of Flight and it didn't quite work out. It made Surion more of a supporting character and didn't quite fit the role that I'd like for him.

Still brainstorming ...

A little more in depth thought here

Primordials:

Zaiken - Takes a turn, bonds with 3 Commons (Water, Sahuagin)
Tawarthion - Take a turn with Animae Squad, then Hero
Kronan - Take a turn, bond with 2 Elementals

Surion - Take 2 turns? or Bond with 3 Elementals

Fire - tbd

I ran two play-tests with the Move 4 and taking double-turns.  It really doesn't work : (  or at least it is not worth 130-points.

Yeah, I really liked the concept but I think it gets too complicated.  He'd move 4 - then you take a turn with an Air Elemental that he flew over - which could be no more than 1 -- and then he gets to take his second turn?  It would be hard to track.  

I also thought about the "X" order marker mechanic but I thought of trying Ornak's Flag out for size instead.

These quotes are taken out of order, but the concept that gets too complicated is solved a bit by the previous quote, and if we want to keep it inline with the Primordials quote, perhaps you could go something like this


MASTER OF THE WINDS
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, if Surion Windseeker passes over a figure with the Air Mastery special power you may take a turn with that figure.  You may not take a turn with no more than 2? figures with the Air Mastery special power.

SUSTAINED WINDS
If Surion Windseeker did not pass over a figure with the Air Mastery special power,  any figure that is within 3 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker or at least one Air Elemental reduces their range value by 3.

This is way too powerful against range.  So maybe just leave at the 2 powers or via master of the winds let surion take another turn, or move all figures he lands adjacent to 1 space, or something?

STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations. Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Ultimately I think

CYCLONE
After taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may reveal an X order marker on this card to activate Cyclone for the duration of the round. While Cyclone is active, any figure that is within 3 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker or at least one Air Elemental reduces their range value by 3.

is too powerful as mentioned above.  Granted none of my thoughts are taking in to consideration more than Surion's move value when throwing out these thoughts.

Yeah, modifying Range can be very powerful (probably why no one has done it yet).  I'm trying to simulate driving winds that would hamper ranged weapons.  I initially liked the idea of taking turns with figures that he flies over but I think it would lead to too many timing questions so traditional bonding keeps it simple.

Going in a different direction ... what about something like:


SURION WINDSEEKER
Species: Primordial
Unique Hero
Class: Sorcerer
Personality: Tricky
Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 7
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 5
110 Points

MASTER OF THE WINDS
After revealing a numbered order marker on this Army Card, before taking a turn with Surion Windseeker, you may take a turn with 2 Common Heroes that have the Air Mastery special power.  Figures that have the Flying or Stealth Flying special power subtract 1 from their defense dice when attacked by Surion Windseeker's normal attack.

CYCLONE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range: 1 Attack:  4
Choose an Air Elemental you control within 5 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker.  Before attacking, you may move the chosen Air Elemental up to 3 spaces.  You may attack with Cyclone Special Attack up to 3 times at any point before, during, or after this move as long as the Air Elemental is on a space where it could end its movement.

STEALTH FLYING
When counting spaces for Surion Windseeker’s movement, ignore elevations. Surion Windseeker may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. Surion Windseeker is engaged when he starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

--
Surion would lead with Master of the Winds - bonding with 2 Air Elementals and then he goes.  He can position the Air Elementals for his Cyclone Special Attack or attack normally.  The concept between Cyclone is that Surion channels more magical energy into the Air Elemental turning it into a 'living weapon' that rips through your opponents.

Here is another special power idea that would replace Cyclone Attack:


WIND WALL
All friendly figures within 3 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker add 1 to their defense dice when rolling defense against a non-adjacent attack.  Add 1 to this defense bonus for every Air Elemental that is within 3 clear sight spaces of both the defending figure and Surion Windseeker, up to a maximum of +3 dice.  Surion Windseeker can be affected by Wind Wall.


Needs some word-smithing. The concept here is that Surion can summon heavy winds to deflect arrows, bullets, jets of flame, etc., and that he can channel his magic through the Air Elementals to augment their "vortex" powers to make a highly effective shield against ranged attacks.

Up to +3 dice is a lot but it is comparable to the Phantom Knights.  I'd likely drop his Defense from 5 to 4 .. because basically he always gets +1 defense against ranged attacks.

I think that "offensive" rules Heroscape, so I am going away from the Wind Wall and back to Cyclone.  Hopefully I can get some play-tests in to see if it works : )

This version adds a Ninjitsu Barrage style attack.


CYCLONE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range: 1 Attack:  4
Choose an Air Elemental you control within 5 clear sight spaces of Surion Windseeker.  Before attacking, you may move the chosen Air Elemental up to 3 spaces.  You may attack with Cyclone Special Attack up to 3 times at any point before, during, or after this move as long as the Air Elemental is on a space where it could end its movement. A figure may only be attacked once per turn.